Hospital Dr's interesting challenge to Covid-deniers.

[AutumnalLeaves38]

Just read this and curious to know what others think about this idea.
Wonder if any exasperated British medics might soon follow suit.

“This is an official invitation to mask- and Covid-19 deniers to accompany me for 9 whole hours during the emergency duty of the hospital the day after tomorrow. But without a mask and with a signed statement. Next to me. With me. Among patients of Covid-19.”

• Dr Nikos Razis, Ippokatio Hospital, Athens

Source:
www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2020/09/30/doctor-mask-covid-19-deniers-invitation-hospital/#comments

They should definitely recruit on here!

Perhaps also a good alternative to fines?

I really feel for our doctors and nurses and other healthcare staff. At increased risk themselves due to higher viral load, the worry of Long Covid (a group of doctor sufferers recently wrote to the BMJ on the issue), and the trauma of working in healthcare settings through a pandemic. I know there's been reports of PTSD in HCPs.

Yes. But also no, because they'd almost certainly catch it, & end up in hospital themselves, probably after spreading it around first. And then they'd need treatment etc for goodness knows how long. But yes, I see his point.

It is interesting to see he's had no takers.

Totally agree, @SheepandCow.

The only flaw I can see with his idea is that already-stressed healthcare workers probably don't need a random person getting in their way.

But maybe they'd consider it worth it, if it helped educate? Which would (hopefully) lessen the overall admission rate?

I don’t wear a seat belt when sat on my sofa nor do I wear a crash helmet when waking down the street.

Wearing a mask while working in a hospital makes sense

Whereas wearing one when popping into the corner shop for a pint of milk is pretty pointless

Guessing it’s a rural self service corner shop.

it just might save someone else.
isn't it worth it for that alone.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Not if you are asymptomatic, or have been in contact with possible Covid sufferers especially now schools are back

I don’t want it. I live in a very rural area, we have had cases

@SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness,

Yes, that's tricky.

I'd like to hear more details about precisely what the 'relevant statement' a said Covid-denier would be required to sign.

It'd be pretty harsh (and defeats the purpose of the experiment to educate!) if the conditions were something along the lines of 'we will not waste our resources on treating you, as you refuse to believe Covid is that serious anyway...

All of us regularly ‘don’t do things’ that could ‘save’ someone else

The compulsory wearing of face coverings in many settings is a completely disproportionate restriction relative to the scale of the problem

Imho, of course

I think the point of this post is that medics would like us to see the results of not taking precautions for ourselves and others.

And, worse imo, it puts key workers at an even greater risk.

Face do reduce the risk - maybe not “enough”, such that to one person, it might not seem worthwhile, but population wide? Suddenly looks like a big number of individuals.

Personally, I think 'Covid-minimising', rather than outright denial, is more dangerous.

If all the focus is on hospital admissions & death rates only, it ignores the serious after effects which can linger.

Perhaps Drs could offer a meeting with non-hospitalised patients who weren't ever critical, but are nevertheless struggling with Long Covid months later? More likely to hit home that that's community spread and can seriously screw your life around.

Maybe a (health professional-led) scheme of Covid-cynics being introduced to an actual person, of similar age, who had had a similar, active lifestyle/shared interests before becoming ill, would resonate far more than only ever hearing the media scare features on random strangers?

That's another good idea @AutumnalLeaves38
I think many of the minimalisers think it only happens to strange alien Other People.

Maybe in return the doctor could follow me to meet with a patient whose cancer diagnosis was delayed and now has to say goodbye to her children. We could then visit the empty high street with shops closing and more security staff than customers. We could then peek behind closed doors at the woman who can’t escape her abuser and their child who has begun to be hit now daddy is drinking more after losing his job. School is optional now so he doesn’t go. We could head to the house of a newborn who is failing to thrive and there are no health visits to check on them. Off next to the care home where a grandfather had his last hug in March and now will die alone. We can meet John who lives alone in Merthyr and his one lifeline of a pub visit with his mates is taken away. He’s suicidal but no face to face therapy for him.

You speak as if accepting all this was on ok trade off. I disagree. That doesn’t make me stupid or cruel but a person who has seen some awful things and knows once doors shut the world isn’t safe for everyone.

@WalesAppearsToBeSlightlySaner

Maybe in return the doctor could follow me to meet with a patient whose cancer diagnosis was delayed and now has to say goodbye to her children. We could then visit the empty high street with shops closing and more security staff than customers. We could then peek behind closed doors at the woman who can’t escape her abuser and their child who has begun to be hit now daddy is drinking more after losing his job. School is optional now so he doesn’t go. We could head to the house of a newborn who is failing to thrive and there are no health visits to check on them. Off next to the care home where a grandfather had his last hug in March and now will die alone. We can meet John who lives alone in Merthyr and his one lifeline of a pub visit with his mates is taken away. He’s suicidal but no face to face therapy for him.

You speak as if accepting all this was on ok trade off. I disagree. That doesn’t make me stupid or cruel but a person who has seen some awful things and knows once doors shut the world isn’t safe for everyone.

How does admitting covid exists or that there is a point to wearing a mask gave any bearing on any of the things you mention?

gave should be have

Good idea @WalesAppearsToBeSlightlySaner
We can show the deniers and minimalisers the consequence of failing to contain Covid.

Because of course no-one's going to be able to get any hospital treatment whilst hospital beds are full of Covid patients. Nor will they get care when the doctors and nurses and other HCP are off sick.

Perhaps we could also take them to the hospital patients - cancer included, who caught Covid in hospital. Perhaps Glamorgan, where there's a current outbreak in the hospital there.

Or the graves of the care home residents and staff who died because of the failure to contain Covid.

You must tell the doctors your discovery about abuse. It gives survivors magic immunity from Covid? Good that there's now concern for survivors. Perhaps there might finally be better funding and resources to help them. There wasn't pre pandemic, when two women a week were killed.

Meanwhile countries that have already taken effective measures to contain Covid have hospitals, schools, shops, pubs, restaurants, gyms, entertainment venues, all open and running as normal. Healthier economies too.

I see his point but I think he would set himself up for a fall.

Re the doctor's offer, I don't think any hospital would allow this, so it is a rhetorical statement.

Great in theory, wouldnt work in practise as all the arseholes would dream up a reason why they personally couldnt do it. Self delusion being their speciality.

Would there be any room with all the dancing nurses?

What a fatuous exercise.

I would no more willingly expose myself to a ward of critically ill C19 patients in 2020 than I would have willingly exposed myself to a ward of influenza patients in 2019.

This is not as clever a parallel to wearing masks amongst the general public as he seems to think it is.

I feel sorry for the dead and the families whose loved ones died of Covid when they didn't have to, and also for the people suffering as a result of the prolonged effects of a pandemic in countries with inept governments who will not be judged kindly by history

See? You can care about more than one thing.

Unless you have an agenda of course.