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Tobias Ellwood MP: Vaccine verification certificates will be given to allow international travel

42 replies

JKRowlingIsMyQueen · 28/09/2020 23:05

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/f9b43e59-b2a3-4d9e-ab6c-f9e3620128aa?in=20:24:24&out=20:28:58

Tobias Ellwood MP: Vaccine verification certificates will be given to allow international travel
OP posts:
tobee · 29/09/2020 18:33

I've read lots of stuff about this too and it's another case of whether you choose to read what confirms your bias. Or if you read all sides.

MotheringShites · 29/09/2020 18:46

Surely the big problem is that most (all?) vaccines are given and accepted by individuals because they are vaccinating against a disease which is potentially a threat to the life/health of the recipient. A positive side effect is that this provides herd immunity for the vulnerable/those unable to be vaccinated.

In any other circumstances would anybody subject themselves and more importantly, their children, to a vaccine for a disease which they have 99.9% chance of surviving?

annabel85 · 29/09/2020 18:49

@SerendipityJane

Stage 3 trials take years though, usually at least 6 years I read. Nothing can be done to replicate the effects of time. This is my concern.

Surely the past 6 months have felt like 6 years ?

Not being funny, but it's not realistic to have all these restrictions for 6 years. At some point we will have to live with the virus.
MinesaBottle · 29/09/2020 19:29

I can also see some countries refusing to let in people who haven’t been vaccinated (unless they can’t have a vaccine for medical reasons). Much like some African countries do with yellow fever.

ItsGoingTibiaK · 29/09/2020 23:00

This extract is taken out of context. Here is what Ellwood actually saidX as taken from Hansard:

“Mass vaccine roll-out is an enormous responsibility, and we need to get it right. Planning must start immediately, and I have written to the Prime Minister recommending that he consider calling on the Ministry of Defence to establish a small taskforce, led by a senior empowered voice of authority, to begin the planning and design of a draft blueprint. The armed forces have the capacity, the logistical experience and the national reach to take on this mammoth, incredible task, and they are not overburdened by any current duties involving tackling covid-19.

“Let us pause to consider what is involved: the logistics of shifting millions of refrigerated vaccines across the country; creating regional distribution hubs, which then feed into mobile testing centres; developing a national database to track progress and issue vaccination certificates, which will probably have to be internationally recognised in order to allow international travel; establishing an order of priority for who receives the vaccine first—key workers, the vulnerable and teachers, for example—and answering more detailed questions about potentially using schools to vaccinate children. All those things must be planned for. With the co-ordination of Whitehall Departments, local authorities, the private sector, policing and security to consider, as well as military support, I hope I make the case for why we need to start thinking about this now.”

Vaccine passports are a tiny bit of this. And, more to the point, an MP suggesting this and writing to the PM does not make it a policy, despite what the conspiracy theorists are crowing today because they can’t be arsed looking at the actual source and they think this extract confirms what they already believe.

OP - your thread title is completely misworded. At no point did Ellwood say vaccine certificates will’be given.

JKRowlingIsMyQueen · 29/09/2020 23:17

@CoffeeandCroissant I do not care about David Icke and I arrived at a protest AFTER he spoke. What I do care about is people being denied cancer treatments, elderly people in care homes being denied visitors, students being locked up in dorms. That's why I attended the protest.

OP posts:
JKRowlingIsMyQueen · 29/09/2020 23:18

@MotheringShites

Surely the big problem is that most (all?) vaccines are given and accepted by individuals because they are vaccinating against a disease which is potentially a threat to the life/health of the recipient. A positive side effect is that this provides herd immunity for the vulnerable/those unable to be vaccinated.

In any other circumstances would anybody subject themselves and more importantly, their children, to a vaccine for a disease which they have 99.9% chance of surviving?

They wouldn't. Which is why it's gonna be mandatory.
OP posts:
ItsGoingTibiaK · 29/09/2020 23:22

At least the journalist had the decency to clarify a little - though she still misquoted him.

Tobias Ellwood MP: Vaccine verification certificates will be given to allow international travel
Ophelia2020 · 29/09/2020 23:24

There's plenty of information about this on the Wef.

www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/this-is-what-travelling-will-be-like-after-covid-19/

Blue565 · 30/09/2020 09:29

I definitely want the vaccine... but I'm certainly going to wait until I see what effect it has first when it is rolled out (even if I have to make holiday sacrifices etc)

DrizzleandDamp · 30/09/2020 09:36

This is completely wrong, it’s forced vaccination by stealth and totally confirms what all the anti lockdown anti vaccine conspiracy theorists are spouting. It’ll be workplaces and schools next on that list.

The pharmaceutical companies have lobbied for governments to take liability for vaccine damage. That hasn’t happened on ANY OTHER VACCINE. Does that not give anyone cause for concern?

They know it’s rushed and not therefore safe so they won’t take liability. I’m not putting that in my kids. Thalidomide anyone? This total trust in governments really concerns me for the future of our civil liberties.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN24V2EN

KenDodd · 30/09/2020 09:37

Good.

But once again promising things that are not in their gift. Government can only legislate that people can't ENTER the country without a vaccination certificate, they can't dictate what other countries do. Has Brexit taught them nothing? I'd like to see them try to keep foreign nationals from leaving certificate or not.

Blue565 · 30/09/2020 12:13

@KenDodd

Good.

But once again promising things that are not in their gift. Government can only legislate that people can't ENTER the country without a vaccination certificate, they can't dictate what other countries do. Has Brexit taught them nothing? I'd like to see them try to keep foreign nationals from leaving certificate or not.

Moreover they are not allowed to bar a British citizen with a British passport entry to the United Kingdom (under 'Right to return' International law)

So it is a total non-starter. If for example Italy didn't need the certificate and you travelled there. Britain would not be allowed to bar you from returning, certificate or not.

SerendipityJane · 30/09/2020 13:24

Moreover they are not allowed to bar a British citizen with a British passport entry to the United Kingdom (under 'Right to return' International law)

Yet. We already know international law isn't at the forefront, midbrain or arse end of their thinking.

It's not what my dear late DM would have called "their strong suit"

MarshaBradyo · 30/09/2020 13:26

@StatisticalSense

Presumably they'll have to start with the young then for the vaccinations as it would cause literal rioting if the elderly who have been the least effected all along were allowed to go on holiday whilst the young who have made the biggest sacrifices are stuck following stricter rules.
Imagine if they had to wait another year or so. Wouldn’t go down well.
FTMF30 · 30/09/2020 13:34

@Thanx4theMmories

And dismissing anyone with concerns as a conspiracy theorist is lazy.

I don't have a tin foil hat and I didn't go to the protest but I am able to read around a topic and draw my own conclusions rather than thinking what the BBC wants me to think. There are many credible scientists who counter the narrative. It depends which science you choose to believe.

I agree.

The amount of times "tin foil hat" has been thrown around because someone dares to express any apprehension about the situation is ridiculous. We are sleepwalking into dire times ahead.

notimagain · 30/09/2020 14:21

So it is a total non-starter. If for example Italy didn't need the certificate and you travelled there. Britain would not be allowed to bar you from returning, certificate or not

Leaving the UK - possibly.

However..realistically, looking ahead - if a vaccine is approved and vaccination programs start IMVHO it won't be long before most if not all countries demand proof of vaccination before entry..

Being of a certain age tucked away somewhere I have a small book cluttered with stamps showing proof of being jabbed against the likes of Yellow Fever, Cholera, etc etc etc......the requirement for such proofs is nothing new and was not confined to the UK.

At some point down the road I suspect there's a high probability people may well face up to the fact that if they choose not to be vaccinated against Covid their choice of travel destinations will be curtailed.

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