Why are we in lockdown when no one is dying?

[SplunkPostGres]

I don’t understand why we’ve got local lockdown again. Cases are high but deaths are still low. Seems like a lot of cases are asymptomatic? So why are the lockdowns and restrictions needed?

Isn’t that a bit like saying why do we wear seatbelts when mist of us never get hurt in accidents?

Er, if there were no restrictions the infections, hospital cases and, after a lag, eventually deaths would rise quicker.

The lockdowns might be clumsy and badly managed by the government but we already saw how the disease spreads without precautions

@Bouncycastle12

I don’t understand how at the moment, more people are dying of flu and pneumonia than Covid.

What's so difficult to understand? We put lockdown measures in place; they worked and so deaths are lower at present. Now that they, admissions and cases are all rising we need to look at further restrictions so that in a few months time people can say 'i don't understand why we're doing this when no one is dying.'

It's a little like saying to a cancer patient in remission, 'what was the point of you going through all that chemo? You're better now anyway!'

I am baffled that people consistently refuse to look logically at this situation and see it for what it is. I am no Tory lover, never voted for them in my life and think they've done some stupid things in this pandemic but I see the need for restrictions to stop the NHS becoming overwhelmed, as we did by the skin of our teeth before, so that lives in all situations can be saved.

These threads are bonkers, disingenuous and tedious.

And I am someone who lost my income back in march, as well as being CEV.

There is far more testing now than earlier in the year so we are more
aware of the numbers infected now.
The next step is to ensure they do not pass it around anywhere.

Personally I would reintroduce shielding from Monday(fully funded by the government). I would also put all NHS staff on emergency contracts allowing them to be moved around the country to hotspots when needed

Other than that, we simply cannot afford to destroy the economy and our DC’s futures any more than we already have.

We need to focus on protecting those who are actually vulnerable, while keeping the measures we have. Otherwise, the rest of us need to keep the economy going.

We should be running NHS capacity hot and re-opening Nightingales. Nurses and doctors should be deployed wherever they’re needed temporarily across the U.K.- of course with childcare and accommodation provided.

We should be running NHS capacity hot and re-opening Nightingales. Nurses and doctors should be deployed wherever they’re needed temporarily across the U.K.- of course with childcare and accommodation provided

They aren't the military!

What you are proposing would see many leave the NHS.

Ridiculous suggestion.

Because coronavirus is now political.

We should be running NHS capacity hot and re-opening Nightingales. Nurses and doctors should be deployed wherever they’re needed temporarily across the U.K.- of course with childcare and accommodation provided
Trouble is this accommodation will be in hotels without laundry or cooking facilities. What type of childcare and where?
The government should have planned over the summer for where the staff for the Nightingales would come from (training student nurses, newly qualified nurses, returning nurses in intensive care etc) - but they did nothing. So there are no staff, apart from taking staff from other hospitals, which need all the staff they have because they are understaff because there are 40,000 nurse vacancies in this country because when a nurse leaves a department they are not replaced due to needing to save money (and there not being enough nurses because it is highly skilled work that is poorly paid compared to other professions)

People aren't dying in great numbers BECAUSE of lockdown/ restrictions. Not hard.

So it's ok to disrupt the education even more of the Children of Drs and Nurses , Occupational therapist,s etc etc whilst their parents are redeployed anywhere in the country ,so that the children of every one else ,future is secure

@x2boys

So it's ok to disrupt the education even more of the Children of Drs and Nurses , Occupational therapist,s etc etc whilst their parents are redeployed anywhere in the country ,so that the children of every one else ,future is secure

Yes, and redeploy from where exactly? There is no hospital in the country with excess staff. 40,000 nursing vacancies due to hospitals deliberately not filling vacant posts, new student nurses not entering the underpaid profession, many middle-aged nurses taking early retirement due to appalling working conditions and poor managers with no clinical experience. There are no spare healthcare staff to move around the country (even if that were not questionable from societal, economic, ethical point of view).

@3rdNamechange

People aren't dying in great numbers BECAUSE of lockdown/ restrictions. Not hard.

That's belief rather than fact though isn't it?

And there are an increasing number of medical professionals disagreeing with you.

16:32HesterShaw1

3rdNamechange

People aren't dying in great numbers BECAUSE of lockdown/ restrictions. Not hard.

That's belief rather than fact though isn't it?

And there are an increasing number of medical professionals disagreeing with you.

If it is not due to restrictions/lockdowns then what is it that caused the high numbers we saw earlier in the year to reduce? What do these medical professionals say has caused the slowdown in infections?

@mrshoho

I think it is clear that restrictions delay infections and deaths. That is not much good to us though, as we can’t remain in lockdown indefinitely. As soon as you start to open up, cases and deaths rise.

That is why we need more long-term solutions. There is also a lot of evidence that COVID may in fact simply change the cause of death of an individual.

The overwhelming majority of COVID deaths are in individuals over 80 with underlying health conditions. Most of these people would have died from another cause within a year.

Well that's where we disagree then. I certainly don't want a return of the high levels seen back in March. I can't see any other way to prevent a return of out of control infections than to have restrictions and local lockdowns where needed. There are still 60 odd million people in the UK yet to catch it and if we just give up on restrictions the country would eventually become overwhelmed. Our NHS would not cope. It got through because of the action we took to stop the growth in infections.

@mrshoho

16:32HesterShaw1

3rdNamechange

People aren't dying in great numbers BECAUSE of lockdown/ restrictions. Not hard.

That's belief rather than fact though isn't it?

And there are an increasing number of medical professionals disagreeing with you.

If it is not due to restrictions/lockdowns then what is it that caused the high numbers we saw earlier in the year to reduce? What do these medical professionals say has caused the slowdown in infections?

Because infections were already started to drop by the time we went into lockdown.

There are still 60 odd million people in the UK yet to catch it

Where are you getting this fact from?

@HesterShaw1

There are still 60 odd million people in the UK yet to catch it

Where are you getting this fact from?

The confirmed UK cases are around 440000 to date but we know earlier this year there was limited community testing and medical experts can predict the number of people infected is closer to 5 million so far. Take that away from the total population leaves 60 million plus.

@mrshoho

We can avoid the NHS becoming overwhelmed by retaining the restrictions currently in place and encouraging and supporting people who are vulnerable to shield.

What we cannot afford is another lockdown which would be absolutely ruinous for the economy.

[quote Ecosse]@mrshoho

We can avoid the NHS becoming overwhelmed by retaining the restrictions currently in place and encouraging and supporting people who are vulnerable to shield.

What we cannot afford is another lockdown which would be absolutely ruinous for the economy.[/quote]
However, given the numbers of deaths earlier in the year, either the number of people who were infected was many many times more, or the virus is less dangerous to most than now. Which is more likely?

Medical experts are not a homogenous bunch who all agree.

Sorry @Ecosse, didn't mean to quote you.

Going around in circles here. The virus is the same virus. There are far less people currently being infected now but cases are are rising in many parts of the UK. If measures to slow it down are not taken then we risk it becoming unmanageable.

😂 NHS staff on emergency contracts allowing them to be moved round the country.

Hilarious.

What, like pawns in a game? Are other people furloughed? Maybe they could come and look after the NHS workers abandoned children.

God bless those NHS heroes.

There is around 3 weeks from the infection to death for most patients, isn't it? For what I saw in the newspapers during the lockdown and the curves they presented.
So if we already have deaths now, they should increase exponentially following a similar trend to April-May, alongside the new infections. So they are trying to minimise further infections, but I think we cannot afford another lockdown, so the current restrictions are not as severe as they were before.
Also, the virus may look less deathly now because we can finally test for it, so we are getting a more precise number of people affected by it.

@CountessFrog

It’s not about pawns in a game. NHS staff are our front like of defence against this virus. In wartime, you need your soldiers on the battlefield- not hundreds of miles away sitting idle.

Our NHS should be re-christened as the ‘home guard’ for the duration of the pandemic and staff issued with pin badges illustrating this. It needs to be emphasised to doctors and nurses that they have a civic duty to the country and to the public to work where they’re most needed.

We cannot have a situation where 50 nurses are twiddling their thumbs in Plymouth who could be staffing a Nightingale in Liverpool.

We need to flex and push NHS capacity to the limit, and that requires resources (including staff) to be where they’re needed at any one time.

@FreekStar

We're in an area where local restrictions have been in place for 10 WEEKS with no end in sight. It covered the whole school summer holiday so we were not allowed to have any visitors or visit any other family. My elderly parents feel isolated- they don't want to go to the park to see us surrounded by other families doing the same, they just want to come and have a cup of tea in our lounge. After six months off school, dd managed 4 days back before she was sent home to self isolate after a positive case in her year- 14 days in the house and garden- not allowed to the shop or even a walk- and this is set to happen periodically- she's had no symptoms- to expect teens to do this on a regular basis in an infringement of her human rights.

We have been in exactly the same situation, in local lockdown since the second week of the school holidays, dd did one week at school and then had to isolate for 14 days. I have no idea how this is sustainable or how working parents are going to be able to keep their jobs. At the moment I'm more worried about the mental health of some of the people I know than Covid, they are really struggling. I was also sad to hear this week how many women missed routine mammograms in the last 6 months due to Covid restrictions. Another shocking article I read stated a hospital in London had seen a significant increase in still births since lockdown began. I think in the long term more lives will be lost from the knock on effects of Covid rather than the virus itself.