Is government creating chaos on purpose?

[pontypridd]

So many mixed messages.

So much incompetence.

Yes

On purpose? Don't be so stupid. How would that benefit them?

I don't think covid is a massive conspiracy, but it's clear that the government is using it to divert millions of taxpayers millions into their friends, families and doner's pockets. That they're doing it so blatantly is sickening.

I also feel that it's being used to run down the NHS even further than it already was. Our expectations of response from NHS and treatment Etc is so low currently. Will it ever go back to how it was before Covid?

It benefits them, because they are not invested in the welfare of this country. Their assets are mobile, their links are international, and there is money to be made from burning all regulations and holding a fire sale. If the NHS goes under, how tragic, we'll step in to the rescue, and oops, we just made a nice few million from those shares we had in the medical insurance company that just happened to be ready to fill the gap.

@pontypridd

So many mixed messages.

So much incompetence.

Cummings is behind it. It's not incompetence. it's deliberate confusion designed to make people break the rules. It's what Cummings does.

@TheWhalrus

On COVID-19, no probably not.

Although it does rather feel like they've used the pandemic as a distraction to channel public money towards their friends (in the form of untendered contracts awarded to certain companies for pandemic-related services) and to centralize power to ministers rather than parliament. That said, it looks as if the latter will be challenged in parliament on Wednesday.

Agreed.

they've used the pandemic as a distraction to channel public money towards their friends (in the form of untendered contracts awarded to certain companies for pandemic-related services) and to centralize power to ministers rather than parliament. That said, it looks as if the latter will be challenged in parliament on Wednesday
of course, never let a crisis go to waste, a crisis provides the best cover

They're not intelligent enough to be able to do it on purpose. They literally don't know what the fuck they're doing. Perhaps they should have taken the pandemic preparation more seriously instead of kicking it into the long grass.

The issue is that everyone should have the common sense to keep them. And the public safe. Why people need spoon feeding is totally beyond me in this situation. The only restriction where I live is the rule of six and masks in shops.... That is not hard to stick too... Everything else is just common sense!!

I wonder whether the situation is being used for the government to gain more absolute control and authority. This is the way things were going before Covid.

It was talked about a lot that Cummings was into causing chaos so as to create his own version of order from the disorder that he'd made. I think this was mostly in connection with the Civil Service.

But perhaps Cummings is using Covid to further his chaos plans. This looks and feels, to me, dangerous.

But perhaps Cummings is using Covid to further his chaos plans. This looks and feels, to me, dangerous.

This is the deluisoinal conspiracy theory that it is QAnon theory.

Imagine being so far entrenched in twittershpere politics that you spout this type of rethoric unirronically and still pretend you hold the intelicetual side of the debate.

I wonder whether the situation is being used for the government to gain more absolute control and authority.

For what though? How would it serve their purposes? Step 1 get everyone to wear masks and watch the economy crash, Step 2... sit back and go "hahaha we got them to wear masks and watch the economy crash"?

I don't think Dominic Cummings is anywhere near the four-dimensional-chess strategy master he considers himself to be. He seems to be pretty good at targeting advertising campaigns with data, less good at actually managing everything else about being in government.

David Cameron described Dominic Cummings as a career psycopath. Was he a QAnon cultist too?

There is a big difference between thinking Dominic Cummings does not have our best interests at heart and thinking Donald Trump is saving thousands of children from Democrat paedophiles.

I don't do Twitter.

All I have heard about QAnon is that it's a conspiracy cult in America - something that Trump is encouraging. But I know nothing at all about it.

The theory I have come to, as I say rightly or wrongly - who knows - is made up from reading stuff in the news and here and speaking to friends (none of whom are followers of QAnon ).

There are huge links between Cummings, AIQ, Leave UK, Cambridge Analytica, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump. Electoral manipulation, undermining democracy, these are all stated goals of these companies and people.

None of this is twittersphere conspiracies, the twittersphere conspiracies are the product of these alliances. It's all well documented by Pulitzer prize winning journalists.

www.theguardian.com/news/series/cambridge-analytica-files

Unfortunately, it's all very intricate and complicated and few people have the patience to actually follow it. The bigger scandal is that no-one actually cares. WE'RE not manipulated by social media propaganda, only OTHER people, we know the truth when we see it.

I don't know why they want chaos, but Steve Bannon himself said:

"I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.*

@NastyBlouse

I have come to the conclusion that trying to enact political measures to deal with something like an infectious disease is only ever going to be minimally successful -- it's like trying to bottle fog.

Transmission is more complex than 'be near someone and you'll catch it' -- of course this can be a factor, but there are many others, some of which we understand and some of which we don't.

Furthermore, human nature is such that many people will ignore or break the rules, unless you have something akin to an authoritarian police state. (And even then...)

I also think a lot of people have an unrealistic expectation of how much safety they are owed by the government. It's not government's job to make our lives 100% safe. If it was, it would be illegal to drive a car, or be over a certain weight, or get pregnant, or go for a swim, or have an operation, or basically do anything that is part of being alive.

At one level and this is an open question to which I don't have an answer how much safety do we expect from government, and how much is down to decision-making, risk assessment and personal responsibility?

I'm no fan of this government, but I think they are trying sometimes successfully, sometimes not to strike a balance between legislating and giving out information that allows people to protect themselves up to a reasonable point, and allowing the functions of society to continue. This is always going to be a slightly wobbly tightrope, because you're pitting something blunt human reasoning and decision-making etc against an organism which is built to be highly efficient at doing what it is doing.

Excellent post. Intelligent rather than knee-jerk 'they're evil tories'.

Which country doesn't have internal disagreement over the right course of action? The govt undoubtedly have made mistakes, but who's to say any other govt (e.g. Labour) wouldn't have made their own mistakes. In France they've had strikes against the government's handling of it. The statistics are terrible in Spain.

People will also die as an indirect result of the economy being trashed, you know. It's a very difficult line to tread, between protecting public health and keeping the economy (people's livelihoods and pensions) from crashing too far.

Yes he is quite possibly a career psychopath, he's just also not as good at it as he would like to be. You can be evil and also make a hash of things. See also, Trump.

Those people saying the government are doing what they can in a difficult situation - no they're not. You can't guarantee you can get a test. The health service is fucked and relying on the goodwill of exhausted staff. Schools trying to educate kids with constantly moving goalposts and no money for training or investing in measures that would make it easier. People told to work from home and then called slackers for doing it and then sternly told to go back home. Govt officials breaking the law with no consequence. Govt itself breaking the law with no consequence. Govt explicitly forbidding educators from teaching material that opposes their ideology. Pubs opened because of pressure from cronies. Playgrounds, play groups, theatres, enrichment of any kind that is not expressly money making kept closed for much longer than necessary. Childcare forgotten about. I could go on but it's too depressing. Honestly I think it's too thorough to be accidental.

No. They panicked & made bad decisions in March (because if lockdown was such a great idea we wouldn’t be having another one). They can’t admit that. They’re shitting themselves about the eventual public enquiry and about the public reaction next year when the consequences of their panic really become apparent- mass redundancies, higher taxes, huge cutbacks in health, pensions, social care & education, long term unemployment like we haven’t seen since the 1930s, entrenched social division and bitterness, and entirely preventable deaths from other conditions such as cancer & heart problems. Fear helps conceal their errors temporarily which is why they promote it so desperately.

Plus, Boris is damaged psychologically by his brush with death & incapable of making hard decisions. And Matt Hancock is truly thick, a second rater who was promoted for loyalty & the last person you’d want in a crisis. Priti Patel is just a herd follower who tries to look tough.

They are utterly inept. Only hope is Rishi Sunak who seems to be rather less keen to destroy our children’s future than the rest of them are. Maybe he actually cares about ordinary people in the country? The rest clearly don’t give a toss.

I really don’t think their current behaviour is about striking a balance. It’s about arse covering.

It's one thing not being able to manage the Covid crisis.

And another the constant contradiction. I can't be bothered to list every one now. But if you don't know what I'm talking about - you haven't been paying attention.

This government isn't even trying to do a good job.

I think so. Boris has always been a shrewd, calculating megalomaniac hiding behind a "hapless, bumbling idiot" facade. Why would his government be any different?!

Plantsitter listed some of the contraditions for me. Thank you.

Maybe it is just arse covering. That does sound feasible Gladys.

I'm not sure that Rishi Sunak is any better than the rest of them though is he? If he is it's only because the rest of them are so completely dreadful.

@GoldenOmber

Yes he is quite possibly a career psychopath, he's just also not as good at it as he would like to be. You can be evil and also make a hash of things. See also, Trump.

Agreed, 100%

For the first time I am going to rush to the government's defence. No it is not on purpose, they are indeed entirely incompetent.