Are there any alternatives to sending whole years home?

[notevenat20]

Near where I live most of the secondary schools have now sent at least one year home. At DCs school this was because of one positive test result for a child. The year gets sent home for 14 full days.

This can't go on I feel as soon most of the schools will be half empty.

If you were the govt, is there any system could be set up so you don't have to send home an entire year for 14 days?

What do they do in France and Spain where they have more cases than us?

My class of year 3 and 4 children are a tight bubble. We don't see anyone else in the school day. We're not socially distancing in our bubble, because it's impossible to do the job from 2m away. If one of us had it, I'd be expecting to be sent home. If I wasn't sent home I'd be contacting my union.

@notevenat20
No, primary

I imagine with teachers teaching across year groups; students mixing on the way to/from school; limited dinning spaces; limited outdoor spaces; sets/ability grouping and practical lessons to teach it's even harder for secondary schools.

In Primary at least the children stay on one room with one teacher and are "generally" more compliant about following handwashing rules and toilet timetables.

I'm run ragged at the minute. You can't keep anyone happy- its either parents complaining because they think all this is over blown and you're being ridiculous not letting a child play with their friend in another year group/follow a one way system. Or complaining because they think you're not being strict enough with other parents at pick up/drop off time.
Plus with staff isolating waiting for test results I can be a cleaner, lunch supervisor, breakfast club/afterschool club staff member, gate supervisor all in one day- in addition to my usual job which was busy enough any way

But, the one thing keeping me going is that I'm glad I'm not a secondary head!

I think there might be some Chinese whispers about France’s policy. I was under the impression that the change only applied to junior schools. They are certainly still isolating classes and closing some schools in places so I’m not sure it’s correct what’s assumed here.

By the way if you read up on latest evidence of symptoms in kids (Zoe and abroad) they are in this order:

Fatigue
Headache
Sore throat

Cough and fever are rarer. Just another area our Gov are letting infected kids fly under radar for political purposes.

The Netherlands is similar to France.

I work in a school and schools are full of asymptotic cases anyway (from private schools who have tested entire cohorts) so I’m not really sure of the point of any isolation at all and there is increasing evidence asymptomatic people don't pass CV on much to those they just meet in school and work since they don't particularly shed any virus through coughing or sneezing. It takes major exposure to transmit without symptoms, such as living in the same house as someone.

In France, with one child in college (secondary) and one in primary.

In secondary all students and all teaches wear masks all the time (except in the cantine). Therefore none of them can ever be said to be «contact a risque» to each other (.the definition here is less than 1m apart, no masks, indoors, for 15+mins). So if a child tests positive, the assumption is that they cannot have passed it on in school because they all are wearing masks. So only the infected child goes home and stays. If they’ve had contact With others out of school, that’s different.

In primary, no masks for pupils but masks for all adults. The assumption is that child to child and child to adult transmission risk is negligible, therefore - again - no child can be considered « contact a risque» to either other children or a mask wearing adult.

There is a threshold - 3 positive tests in the same class may lead to closure of that class. But the govt has clamped down hard on over-zealous class / school closures.

No bubbles / pods etc. But equally masks for all over 11yrs and all adults In primaries.

Close contacts here too, according to DD they are sending home the friendship group of those tested positive and people who sat either side of them in lessons and in front/back depending on some classroom layouts. So anyone in a 2m distance for more than 15 mins.

Her school have had three cases since beginning of term. Luckily have year group toilets, canteen and lunch/break spaces so I guess easier for them than some other schools to keep them apart from other years.

@miimblemomble when will the U.K. lose its mask phobia 🤦🏽‍♀️.

History will show us as the idiots for taking so long to introduce this. It’s embarrassing and in places of “education” too. Beggars belief really. Asia looks at us in astonishment and we’re at the bottom of the class in Europe too.

Frightening.

In Primary at least the children stay on one room with one teacher

I work in an infant school and I teach all classes every week - so 270 children. They usually come to me as it's easier for me to maintain the cleanliness and minimise the risks in that one room - and I can clean all equipment before and after they use it. I'm clinically vulnerable so ensuring I have some control over the environment I'm working in helps a little.

Other times I do have to go between rooms though and I'm touching stuff in each room as a result.

It's infants do there's no SDing or anything.

That is interesting Miim

Would people prefer the French system here?

@ohthegoats

The Netherlands is similar to France.

A Dutch friend said it was more business as usual there, schools included

France is beginning to really struggle now though. I’m not sure it’s sustainable. Remember we’re still in September.

Our local school did their best to keep bubbles of single classes. When a case was confirmed they sent a class home. Then PHE advisors told them to send the whole year home instead due to incidental mixing that may have happened in cloakrooms and/or the playground.

Whatever people tell people, it's absolutely impossible to run schools in a covid secure manner and then also manage to isolate each class from others.

How can you do that if there are sets and options?

When I was in yrs 10 & 11 I did The Diploma (v short lived) but I had a day and a half of the subject and then my other subjects around that, to make it work we did maths and English all together rather than in sets with the rest of the year group. We had A grades and D/C grades all mixed together, the more able helped those struggling which helped firm it up in the heads of the more able. Worked pretty well.

The only classes I had that were with others was Art & Science (to allow for triple science) so there wasn't much mixing.

@miimblemomble

In France, with one child in college (secondary) and one in primary.

In secondary all students and all teaches wear masks all the time (except in the cantine). Therefore none of them can ever be said to be «contact a risque» to each other (.the definition here is less than 1m apart, no masks, indoors, for 15+mins). So if a child tests positive, the assumption is that they cannot have passed it on in school because they all are wearing masks. So only the infected child goes home and stays. If they’ve had contact With others out of school, that’s different.

In primary, no masks for pupils but masks for all adults. The assumption is that child to child and child to adult transmission risk is negligible, therefore - again - no child can be considered « contact a risque» to either other children or a mask wearing adult.

There is a threshold - 3 positive tests in the same class may lead to closure of that class. But the govt has clamped down hard on over-zealous class / school closures.

No bubbles / pods etc. But equally masks for all over 11yrs and all adults In primaries.

Interesting to read this. Definitely more pragmatic in terms of mask-wearing and isolating close contacts only - so most pupils in school more than here. Is public acceptance of the policy better than here?

@belowradar

Yes, I think the public are accepting the school situation. For context, a huge proportion of french people have gone back to the office - 84% I think. Wfh has not stayed the norm. French people like their routines and the work / school timetable is the basis for daily life. So if schools / classes close it is hugely disruptive for working parents.

There is a strong sense of solidarité and égalité here, which is used as a justification for many things - minimising school closures, for example, is more égal (equal) as it keeps children learning together so no one falls behind. Égalité is a major policy driver here.

Re.masks, they are widely accepted including in schools. They let us carry on with a normal life. But yes, infection rates have rocketed since la rentrée (back to school / work / uni), and the government is introducing lots of local measures to try and reduce it.

I work in a secondary school (admin) and my kids go to another one. In both schools two whole year groups have so far been sent home.

At my kids’ school the siblings (who are in different - not as yet disclosed by the school - years) of the infected children have now also been found to have symptoms so they closed the entire school on Friday while working out what to do. When everyone goes back it will be masks for everyone everywhere - in class and in the communal areas.

As far as I understand the guidance (I am in London), PHE is contacted if there is one case in a year and then there is a certain amount of discretion as to what the head decides - where I work SLT decided to send whole year groups home. However if there is a second case in the same bubble it becomes an outbreak and is treated differently by PHE. So far this hasn’t happened to us as far as I know.

In the Netherlands they are no longer testing under 12s.

I do think it is rare to send whole year groups home

@Piggywaspushed it’s not rare at all. 2 whole year groups are at home in our secondary school and one in primary.

We’re in London and there’s loads of schools round here. Most have at least one year off. It’s only going to increase.

It’s probably rare in the countryside. But London isn’t even as affected as other cities yet. In other cities this will now be common too.

Statistically very rare in secondary : and the DfE is going to act to make it less commonplace.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

The government has also changed the way schools report cases and effectively taken the decision away from public health. Schools now have a phone line direct to the DFE who take advice from the NHS when making decisions re closures.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

What is?

The government's desire to make people feel guilty for accessing tests for younger people (or increasingly for anyone tbf)

The fact that everything is fine in schools

The almost zero media reporting on school closures or on the situation within schools

The fact that young people exhibit very different symptoms from the 3 symptoms cited for testin

I could go on...

Oh yes I agree @Piggywaspushed.

Whole year groups are bot being sent home here. Upper secondary so no such thing as being with the same classmates all day. Close contacts are told to isolate via track and trace.