Are there any alternatives to sending whole years home?

[notevenat20]

Near where I live most of the secondary schools have now sent at least one year home. At DCs school this was because of one positive test result for a child. The year gets sent home for 14 full days.

This can't go on I feel as soon most of the schools will be half empty.

If you were the govt, is there any system could be set up so you don't have to send home an entire year for 14 days?

What do they do in France and Spain where they have more cases than us?

However, teachers testing positive has led to other teachers being isolated, which is a bigger threat to schools remaining open.

@nellyburt I'm a Headteacher in the North West. On Thursday we had one positive case confirmed. Spent all day waiting for PH to contact me.
At 2:40, they made contact and told us to send the whole year group home because we only have one set of toilets between the key stage, so year groups go at the same time, and only one playground, so year groups play out at the same time

So, I'm not sure where your thoughts on it being up to the Headteacher come from. I had no discretion on the matter

One of our local schools seem to have changed tactics recently. They had previously sent 3 year groups home.

However in sixth form they just sent home the three classes the teen had been in.

And this week with a year 11 - who's only returned the day before after the year was isolated before - it's now only the immediate pupils so 15 children who were sat within 1m of said positive child.

I think that may signal a shift in advice (ie the gov is panicking : nothing to see here! Nothing to see!)

There was a case at S's sixth form and only about 5 students had to SI.

As I said on the other thread you were on PHE have long and detailed conversations about the building, the classroom layout, the proximity etc and make a decision. So the decision will be different for different schools.

The best way of not having a whole year group sent home would be blended learning that splits year groups in half - a week in a week out (or ideally, two but that’s harder in terms of learning) That would mean social distancing could happen in school, so that much smaller groups would be at risk.

I find it worrying that we might move to only immediate contacts - and 1m is pretty close contact! I am concerned health wise as I'm clinically vulnerable. I work in infants so there is NO social distancing for staff at all.

So, I'm not sure where your thoughts on it being up to the Headteacher come from. I had no discretion on the matter

I guess the role the head plays is designing the school set up with an understanding of what PHE will do when given this information.

My school got the jitters when I said my front desks were less than 2 m away (having had one teacher test positive they have learnt that 2 m is the key for lessons). I had to be reroomed/rearrange all the seating. the major concern is infection in teachers.

It sounds like the approach is shifting.

Not surprising, if you look at June articles we were even more vigilant. Whole schools closed, or bubbles.

The French send one positive child home alone as said below.

So, I'm not sure where your thoughts on it being up to the Headteacher come from. I had no discretion on the matter

Yep. Exactly the same in my school and the one my sister is head of up north.

There are huge variations, though OP and some schools are far easier to bubble than others,as you yourself allude to.

Piggy I’m don’t think tier 2 has happened anywhere has it? Even high transmission areas. I guess it’s last resort.

Seems to be!

I do think all French children and teachers are masked so I guess they feel more confident that there won't be spread in classrooms. (possibly misplaced looking at their infection rates). It just all seems dogged wilful determination/ostrich behaviour against the odds to me.

I think the older the students, the fewer are liekly to be sent home when contact tracing is put into practice.
Sixth formers should be able to say who they've been in contact with, Plus the classes are smaller, they move around less and have generally have more space.

Or it may be that its a staff member who has the infection, in which case they can identify the individual classes they've been in close contact with, rather than whole year groups

In primary, children can't remember if they've already had their lunch yet some days, let alone who they might have stood next to when washing their hands in the toilets.

And because we are reducing contact between groups, all year group are involved with supervising all children in a year group at sometime during the day

So if there's any doubt, currently Headteachers are being told to send home whole year groups

I'm in London and the whole year bubble is being sent home. DS at home right now. This is correct IMO otherwise what is the point of the bubble?

If we waited until there were three cases in smaller bubbles, the chances of a teacher getting infected become higher. Lack of staff is what will close lots of schools and year groups.

This. Plus it can't be that reassuring being a teacher in the only workplace in the country without SD, without masks and where you need 3 of the children you're in a small, indoor space with to be positive before you're told to isolate. At what point will teachers just start walking away?

I think this is sensible imho.

Let's hope teaching unions don't think it's sensible.

Plus it can't be that reassuring being a teacher in the only workplace in the country

Yep, all this shouting about fines for breaking isolation rules, yet school staff will have to stay. Will we get fined for not isolating after being in contact with a case? Fecking ridiculous.

@notevenat20
We only have one door to/from the playground for the same number of children to use at the beginning/end of playtime. Plus the school dinner hall was built when the school had 240 pupils, we now have 410.
Plus with one set of girls/boys toilets between 240 children, there's not a lot of discretion to be had when designing the school set up

School's were already over crowded and cramped before the pandemic, we didn't suddenly get more room or more staff to supervise.

Erm actually it's now down to the school

That’s not true.

@Piggywaspushed

There was a case at S's sixth form and only about 5 students had to SI.

It is a lot easier to identify close contacts in sixth form (at least when it comes to lessons) due to only taking 3-4 subjects. My Dc has the same set of 20-ish pupils for all 4 options, so less than 80 (some of the pupils are in more than one subject), plus tutor group plus a small group of friends at lunch, plus a few people in close proximity on bus (wearing masks). That means that less than half of the year group would have to isolate for a case in his year group. Seems fairer to spend the time identifying close contacts than send whole year group home. Plus school have masks everywhere except lessons and eating so transmission in communal areas already reduced.

@Siddalee

Is that a secondary school?

My daughter was sent home over a week ago and half his year had to isolate. Even though they mix at break and lunch and buses with the other half. I would prefer it were fewer to be honest and I think it will move that way. The case was not in her form but she did share some classes but he does not sit near the person infected. I work in a school and schools are full of asymptotic cases anyway (from private schools who have tested entire cohorts) so I’m not really sure of the point of any isolation at all.

France also moved to a 7 day isolation rather than 14 as they realised most people were far more likely to comply and that it was better than more complied for 7 days than almost none for 14.