'stick to the rules and we'll get back to normal sooner'

[MorrisZapp]

This had been said since March and there's a new wave of it now. If we stick to the guidelines, then we can get back to normal sooner.

What is this based on? I don't see how 'normal' can be achieved by anything other than a vaccine, better treatments and a degree of acceptance of this new virus in our world.

If you think that sticking to rules now will bring normality sooner, why do you think this?

It's a relatively new, evolving and mutating virus.

It's here to stay. Amongst us live day to day, and coded into our DNA going forward.

Personal exposure and immunity, vaccinations, excellent hygiene, isolation (non-exposure i.e living permanently alone) community isolation (non-exposure i.e tribal isolation boundries).

Local community isolation that is successful at the moment seem to be several Scottish Isles and Isle of Man.

From personal conversations - isolationist religious communities in SE England and Ireland.

Im sure some people MIGHT be interpreting it that way. But would it not be fairly accurate to say that some elements of the situation would be vastly improved by higher rates of compliance? Surely if people actually adhered to the guidance/rules transmission rates would come way down as they did during lockdown... meaning the NHS can perform with more capacity, more things can open up, restrictions can be lessened, people’s mental health wont be constantly impacted by impending doom and social tension...
I understand it won’t kill the virus. I get that it won’t eradicate it. But the guidance /rules are still aimed at avoiding vast numbers of people being unwell at once/ higher levels of ICU demand etc etc etc. All of that leaves more people unable to access normal healthcare capacity and means more extreme measures need to be brought in again to deal with the consequences of so many people collectively doing seemingly small insignificant things all at once to lower the overall compliance.
Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how I interpret it.

It's not going away ever.
I doubt we will ever get back to normal if by normal you mean no masks, no distancing, shaking hands,hugging etc
Masks will be here forever now. Large crowds at events are gone for good. Small distanced mask wearing crowds as cinemas are now will eventually come in for theatre/sport/concerts/festivals. Nightclubs and parties, random hook ups are a thing of the past.

Hell, that's depressing. Some people probably thought that about the plague and Spanish flu.

I was just reading The Times.
It seems that Boris and Rishi are at odds because Boris feels that we need to supremes until there’s a vaccine and Rishi feels that is not imminent and is worried about the economy etc.

Interestingly neither think that the current restrictions will hasten getting ‘back to normal’ in themselves.

*supress

I think it depends more on what timescales you’re expecting ‘normal’ to happen in. We weren’t far off at the end of August with plans for sports and other entertainment venues to open...

My expectations have always been for 2021/22 for true, relaxed, normality to resume in some form. I’m pretty convinced that people are hearing what they want to if they really believe (not just hope) it will be shorter.

I know quite a few people who have died with, or of the virus.

Quite a few who have had it and are OK.

The Black Plague is probably a bad example as it spanned a couple of centuries.... we have a lot better understanding of disease and tools to tackle them with now though.

Normal includes the NHS being fully open for example. There are still parts that are shut from the first wave. If we stick to the rules the NHS won't have to shut down to non covid patients again which will save a huge number of lives.

@MorrisZapp

This had been said since March and there's a new wave of it now. If we stick to the guidelines, then we can get back to normal sooner.

What is this based on? I don't see how 'normal' can be achieved by anything other than a vaccine, better treatments and a degree of acceptance of this new virus in our world.

If you think that sticking to rules now will bring normality sooner, why do you think this?

I think sticking to 'rules' i.e. laws and guidelines will reduce the transmission rate. That's just obvious surely.

If we had a really low transmission rate, we could behave much more 'normally' as we would have more confidence that the people we met would not be infectious.

But a reasonable proportion of the country won't, so we are a bit fucked I think.

@EhUp

Do people honestly think that every person to person transmission occurs because someone 'broke a rule' and that if there was 100% compliance the virus would magically dissappear in 2 weeks?

Yes, people do think this. Someone said on another thread that obviously the fact that people are still getting colds etc means that they’re not obeying the Covid rules, as if they did then no illnesses would be able to be passed on. No consideration of the fact that people still have to work in places where social distancing isn’t possible, masks aren’t the magic bullet that some seem to think they are, people have caring responsibilities, very young children are still in childcare and obviously social distancing is impossible in that situation, people have to use public transport, etc etc.

I have a friend who lives in the IoM, they are arresting and imprisoning people who breach the covid quarantine rules.

I don't think that would wash on mainland UK.

If we had a really low transmission rate, we could behave much more 'normally' as we would have more confidence that the people we met would not be infectious

But once we have the low transmission rate, and people start to behave ‘much more normally’, it starts to spread again.

Masks will be here forever now. Large crowds at events are gone for good. Small distanced mask wearing crowds as cinemas are now will eventually come in for theatre/sport/concerts/festivals. Nightclubs and parties, random hook ups are a thing of the past

Why on earth do you say that? No previous pandemics have led to all those things being ‘a thing of the past’, so why would this one?

Do people honestly think that every person to person transmission occurs because someone 'broke a rule' and that if there was 100% compliance the virus would magically dissappear in 2 weeks?

Obviously not but if you had 100% observance of the 2m rule then undoubtedly transmission would drop.

Government would have to play a part in actually mandating that e.g. in school haha haha...

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

If we had a really low transmission rate, we could behave much more 'normally' as we would have more confidence that the people we met would not be infectious

But once we have the low transmission rate, and people start to behave ‘much more normally’, it starts to spread again.

By 'normally' I mean where we are in the areas not of concern. I don't personally consider hands face space to be awfully limiting on a personal level.

I consider not being allowed into other people's homes etc very limiting.

Yes Frouby.

Total isolation guarantees no exposure to the virus. To achieve this in any tribe and community means punishing potential transgressors and keeping them separated.

Exposure to the virus (natural or vaccine) is the only way to build up immunity (or have people die).

Nature - just is.

There is some truth in it , I think earlier on following the rules it will be over soon in a matter of months but now 6 months on it's unlikely.
So yes I'll follow the rules in the new normal I can work go to the hairdressers etc but have parties etc are off .
I refuse to go in a proper lockdown again I'll see my mum etc I'm not not seeing her for weeks on end again but friends I can live without for a while .
I was prepared to do lockdown not se family for a while but 6 months on and likely to go on then no .
Other countries India for example where is much more populated unable to isolate etc there is 100,000 cases a day but they can't follow the rules because if they don't work they don't eat .
So yeah I agree with you that it won't be over soon if we follow the rules it'll be as long as it takes. I think the rules are for that so many more don't catch it and potentially die .

All the lockdown/sticking to rules etc are actually doing is drawing it out rather than it being over quicker.

Now not saying this should be done, but if we really wanted it to all be over as quickly as possible, then we should allow the virus to circulate freely with no restrictions. Even then if it works like many other viruses we won't have full immunity, but rather it will be partial immunity. Which would mean that it does become little more than a common cold (which can still kill), just another bug we get and the vast majority of us shake off.

Think about what would happen if someone went to a remote tribe while suffering from a cold they hadn't experienced before. I would imagine that it would be just as devastating.

I dont think the press help with this kind of trope, but lots of people find it reassuring so guess that's why its popular?

Last night on the news a young Welsh man was blaming this on selfish people. I dont see it like that. No one is purposely infecting anyone. You dont stop infection chains by becoming a hermit unless everyone becomes a hermit. No one wanted this, no one bought into it. No one order a pandemic from eBay. But that's the picture it brings up in my mind.

Anyway, I worked in medical research, you cant rush out vaccines half arsed but still so many expected a vaccine by summer based on what?

This is just another comfort angle to think we humans have full control. We dont and I'm ok with the facts. It will pan out however it pans out. The less it spreads the less likely we are to see people dieing in hospital corridors but I refuse to think it will just go away or that anyone actually wants this situation.

If R drops below 1 long enough the virus dies out unless you import it from outside again. However unless r is a long way below 1 it wont die out quickly.

We didnt have a very strict lockdown so we didnt eliminate the virus, therefore everyone had to be careful not to spread it. That was working until the government allowed foreign holidays without enforcing isolation - so people who didnt isolate and went on pub crawls reinfected significant numbers of people. Then "eat out to spread the virus" carried it on as hospitality staff were not wearing masks.

So we are back to the virus increasing and need harsher measures to get back to low levels again.

We cant get back to "normal" until there are better treatments, vaccines or other measures that limit spread - for example uvc light may be used to disinfect ventilation systems - and make it safer for us all. New treatments are being found, vaccines are making progress.

The human race is ingenious, this will not last forever.

eat out to spread the virus

but also

@FeedtheFish123

It's not going away ever. I doubt we will ever get back to normal if by normal you mean no masks, no distancing, shaking hands,hugging etc Masks will be here forever now. Large crowds at events are gone for good. Small distanced mask wearing crowds as cinemas are now will eventually come in for theatre/sport/concerts/festivals. Nightclubs and parties, random hook ups are a thing of the past.

This is life now, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves, following the rules won't get it over quicker. This is life. We will come to look back on pre 2020 the way we look at the middle ages disgusted at the poor hygiene practices.

The government have already told us so with the alert level system. Level 1 equals no measures it requires no covid in UK.

That will never happen now, it won't cause the deaths so often once we can vaccinate but it will still be here so the alert system will never get to 1.

We will always have measures now, this is normality the quicker people accept the happier they will be.

Don't be completely ridiculous.

I feel irked by having to buy a new phone to go to the places I want to go to just to put money in the pockets of Serco. My phone was perfectly okay but can't cope with the app and I know loads of people who have non-Android and non-Apple phones. Using the app isn't mandatory in law to access anything (yet) but a few places near me won't let you in without it. Not even a substitute of paper.

Also we are an island and thus in a perfect position to have controlled this. We should have shut the borders in March.