Is a cough at the end of a cold a "new" cough?

[bathsh3ba]

DD12 has had a cold the last few days - started with a sore throat, progressed to runny nose and blocked nose, today she has started coughing. She hadn't coughed much before she went to school today, since she came home she has been coughing once every half hour or so, but always after she sniffs, i.e. it's probably post-nasal drip. Does this count as a new cough and do I have to do the whole test and isolate thing AGAIN? (We isolated for DD10's change in sense of taste last week and she tested negative). No fever, no shortness of breath, no change to smell/taste.

@EarringsandLipstick

Blocked/runny nose, sore throat, headache and a cough are pretty standard cold symptoms and common covid symptoms.

I'm feeling a bit 🙇🏻‍♀️ at this point but this is NOT true!

They are standard cold symptoms. They are NOT standard Covid symptoms.

The research seems to say they are.

The guidelines are pretty clear - if they have a cough you should test and isolate.

I appreciate it's different in the UK. (Tho I just now checked the guidance from the NHS, and funnily enough, it's v similar to the HSE advice, so I really don't know where you're getting your information! www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/coronavirus-in-children/)

If a child ONLY had a cough, you'd be right to consider testing

If a small child has a runny nose, sore throat & a cough and is otherwise well, you really don't (in guidance in Ireland).

Really daft approach

And actually here's the NHS guidance on getting a test:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/get-a-test-to-check-if-you-have-coronavirus/

It really is quite clear. YES to a cough but not if that's clearly linked to a common cold

The research seems to say they are.

Well, nothing that's posted here or your really uninformed posts would support that.

The research says exactly the opposite. Sigh.

www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#:~:text=symptoms

It really is quite clear. YES to a cough but not if that's clearly linked to a common cold
Where does it say that on the NHS page?
I can't see anything about not getting a test if you have other symptoms as well as a cough
How would you even diagnose "sore throat, runny nose and cough due to a cold" and "sore throat, runny nose and cough due to covid" without a test?

There tends to be clusters of symptoms - it won't necessarily be just a cough, and actually that is one of the less common symptoms reported by children with covid (a sore throat is more common). But a cough (with or without other symptoms) is criteria for testing and isolating in the UK.

There is a symptom list here from the American CDC www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html
Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea

My 4 year old child had what I presume was a regular cold and coughed a bit at the end of his cold. I got told to send him in by his school when asked and at the time, there where no tests available anyway. Nobody rung us to come pick him up at any point.

It says what the symptoms are Mippi.

They don't include the common cold symptoms.

Therefore a snuffly, sniffly child with a non-dry cough who is otherwise well does not need a Covid test.

The cough is attributable to the cold.

No cold & a dry cough - Covid symptom.

It's not rocket science, honestly.

And yes, as I've said, there are cases where that won't hold true, but that's always the way.

Look at the insanity of the UK self referral system where people who really need a test can't get one cos of the honey interpretations people like you put on it.

I think I've failed to convince you so I'll leave you with your mixed up facts!

• honey should be hokey

What do you think is the difference between cold symptoms and those symptoms

Runny nose/congestion, sore throat, headache cough???

@Mippi

You keep listing different sources for Covid symptoms:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea

Is your last list.

Yes. I agree.

And these are not common cold symptoms, tho some can be!!

For example, shortness of breath IS NOT a cold symptom.

Nor is new loss of taste / smell.

Nor is nausea or vomiting

Nor is diarrhoea

Nor is fever.

It is the combination of symptoms & the overall presentation of the child as well as their contacts that allows a qualified GP, in Ireland, make a decision about testing.

@Mippi

What do you think is the difference between cold symptoms and those symptoms

Runny nose/congestion, sore throat, headache cough???

I think I've answered this, many times

There's not much more I can say.

If you're so inclined, you can read over my posts 😀

@EarringsandLipstick you don't have to have all the listed symptoms!

Several posters on this very thread have said their child had those very symptoms (sore throat, runny nose, cough) when they had covid.

People experience a wide range of symptoms and certainly don't have all of them or indeed only cough/fever.

In the U.K. a cough - whether with cold symptoms or not - requires a test.

So any new cough ( continuous) requires a test - it’s irrelevant here whether it is accompanied by cold symptoms or not. You should still test and isolate even if you have a cold as well. It’s also irrelevant whether it’s ‘wet’ or ‘dry’ cough.

If you have a new cough you test.

Haha I've just recovered from a big that I'm fairly sure was a cold (and my Covid test came back negative). Cold symptoms which for me meet also a fever,a cough and zero sense of smell.

The NHS has chosen to single out 3 symptoms of Covid. The research makes it clear there are more, and actually a runny nose and sore throat are pretty common.

Maybe it's easier to think it's going to be really obvious when you have covid, and the symptoms are going to stand out as very different from a "normal" virus.
But when you have experienced just how much like a cold a mild case in children is, you realise it's not!

There's no special, obvious "Covid cough" unfortunately either. It's just a cough, and while most people might have dry coughs, lots report productive coughs too.

Obviously that does then make it more worrying, because it's much harder to control the spread if most cases are mild and cold-like.

[quote Mippi]**@EarringsandLipstick* you don't have to have all* the listed symptoms!

Several posters on this very thread have said their child had those very symptoms (sore throat, runny nose, cough) when they had covid.

People experience a wide range of symptoms and certainly don't have all of them or indeed only cough/fever.[/quote]
I never said you did. I do wish you'd read my posts!

However, if you have a set of symptoms matching that of the common cold, without having distinctive Covid symptoms you shouldn't test, barring other reasons eg close contact

I also said that there are cases where they'll be Covid + tests when cold symptoms are present.

However, there are many Covid + tests on people who are asymptomatic (eg meat factories in Ireland) but we can't test *everyone
*
So we develop reasonable criteria to ensure those who most need testing get tested

Yes, and the criteria is a cough. Doesn't matter which other symptoms you do or don't have.

In the U.K. a cough - whether with cold symptoms or not - requires a test.

I think people think that. I'm not in the UK but NHS advice doesn't say that & is similar to HSE advice.

It is a certain type of cough. Those who've had it, know it.

Additionally many cases do not have any evidence of a cough. Ever.

That's why decisions on testing are made, in Ireland, via a GP or public health. Much more sensible.

Cold symptoms which for me meet also a fever,a cough and zero sense of smell.

Well you had something but possibly not a cold!

Fever is a v uncommon symptom of a cold.

You could have had another virus.

The lost of taste with a cold - as in you're so bunged up you can't taste anything - is totally different to the Covid loss of taste / smell where normal commonplace foods are inedible to you & is not associated with nasal / sinus issues, like with a cold.

The testing criteria is

• a high temperature – this means you feel hot to touch on your chest or back (you do not need to measure your temperature)

• a new, continuous cough – this means coughing a lot for more than an hour, or 3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours (if you usually have a cough, it may be worse than usual)
• a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste – this means you've noticed you cannot smell or taste anything, or things smell or taste different to normal

There's nothing about not getting a test if you have other common symptoms too

It also doesn't describe a type of cough, just frequency. I've heard all kinds of descriptions of a "covid" cough
a dry cough
coughing so hard you can't catch your breath
a productive cough
a mild cough
an occasional/intermittent cough
a barking cough like croup

So it certainly doesn't seem like there is a particular type of cough that is a defining feature.

My teen had a cold 1st week back so did toddler. Ds progressed to a hacking cough. School said they knew he'd had a cold and to go in..the cough was gone 24 hours later.

Obviously that does then make it more worrying, because it's much harder to control the spread if most cases are mild and cold-like.

To an extent, I see your point here Mippi (although you are still misrepresenting me). My point is that the symptoms of Covid vary from none at all (& where mass, routine testing occurs eg Irish meat factories, this is the case in nearly 90% of those testing +) to very significant - high temperature, rapid onset & being incredibly ill. And then in between.

What I'm saying is a collection of cold type symptoms, without some defining Covid feature eg a type of cough (& you're wrong on the cough type too, actually) or a significant high temperature is likely though not definitely going to be a cold.

Because not everyone can be tested, you've got to have criteria, and you & many others in the UK are misreading them & having tests unnecessarily & preventing those who need them from accessing them in time.

You ask, reasonably about control: so, wear a mask, properly, really limit your contacts & social interactions, physical distance and practice good hygiene.

These measures are highly successful in limiting the spread & should be much more clearly highlighted in the UK, which they have not been eg the way pubs & restaurants have been operating prior to new measures.

@Mippi

Yes, and the criteria is a cough. Doesn't matter which other symptoms you do or don't have.

I think you're wilfully misunderstanding now.

I'll leave you at it - I don't think you've read or tried to take on board a single point I've made.

Okey-dokey!

@EarringsandLipstick

Who made you seemingly the authority on all of this?

I had a cold. I get quite a few colds a year. At least 50% involve me getting a fever. Not a high grade, seeing snakes coming out of the walls fever, but a low grade fever that is above the cutoff for the test. Equally, I get a cough most times, and not just a tickle for a few days, a hacking cough that lasts a couple of weeks.

The NHS say to test if you have at least one of the three recognised symptoms. it doesn't matter if you also have cold symptoms, or any other additional symptoms - if you get one of the three symptoms you test.

But the research shows clearly that there are other symptoms in many people, and that can include cold like symptoms.

I don't give a monkeys what Ireland test for. We have our criteria and that's your business. The likelihood is that by not testing those who also have cold symptoms, you will miss cases, but that's your countries issue to deal with.

I don't understand why you are so vehemently arguing against Covid sometimes manifesting with cold like symptoms when various organisations have said it does. The Zoe research says it does. The CDC says it does. Why do you think you know better than these?

Please explain the UK testing criteria then @EarringsandLipstick because I haven't seen anything about not testing if you have additional symptoms

Here's some information from a recent Lancet article which supports my view on the testing approach being flawed:

it is understandable that there has been a huge surge in demand for tests. But the response by the UK Government is concerning. Many people have reported having to travel hundreds of miles to test centres because no tests or appointments have been offered locally. UK Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, has admitted that tests will be rationed,

If a test is not conducted within 5 days of symptom onset, it's not of use. Over-subscribed testing services mean people who need tests are not getting them in time
*
www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30445-8/fulltext*