If you don’t believe we need tighter restrictions now, will you vaccinate yourself and your kids?

[Dominicgoings]

Just that really.
Based on a FB comment from a covid conspiracy family member. Who will, apparently be living her best ( normal) life because the vaccine will be ready in six months.

Is this a unique thought process?

When the vaccine is widely available and in steady and plentiful supply, absolutely I'll have it as will my kids.

It's like the chicken pox vaccine (which we paid for). While the risk of chicken pox to my kids is low, there is still a risk there. Some children becomr poorly. It's almost certainly unpleasant for a week or so, too. Provided the risks of the vaccine don't outweigh the benefits, then jab away.

If they are available and safe, and I truly believe that a vaccine that a company has jumped through the extremely challenging hoops to bring to the open market will be safe, then vaccines are a great thing.

I still don't agree with all the restrictions and think certain groups of society (young adults aged 16-24 in particular) have paid an extraordinarily high and damaging price for something which barely affects them as a group.

Autism isn’t listed as one of the health conditions affected by Covid. Where the hell did you get that from? We have 2 with autism in our house. What you’re saying is false. There are very specific conditions that increase risk, autism isn’t one of them.

@Skyla2005

I don’t believe in any restrictions and no I won’t have the vaccine or will my children. We have to get the virus for it to go away and if you are healthy you will be fine. The vulnerable need to shield while the rest of us get it

..... Why "herd immunity" by just letting it rip costs far more lives https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1305436391707467776.html

Adam Kucharski @AdamJKucharski
(Mathematician/epidemiologist at LSHTM, WellcomeTrust)
.....
A thread on the problem of 'overshoot' ... 1/

This claim seems to arise from a misunderstanding about two related, but different metrics:

the % of people infected during an epidemic,
and the point at which immunity leads to a decline in transmission 2/

In an uncontrolled epidemic, 'herd immunity' is reached at the peak (because R

@MillyMollyFarmer

Autism isn’t listed as one of the health conditions affected by Covid. Where the hell did you get that from? We have 2 with autism in our house. What you’re saying is false. There are very specific conditions that increase risk, autism isn’t one of them.

... These are quoted by the NHS as "underlying conditions" - so take it up with them which people should realise when quoting figures for deaths without underlying conditions

NHS England datasheet classifying deaths for various groups, including death by pre-existing condition,
which does include autism, also LDs
plus anyone treated for MH problems

I have not said any of these conditions increase risk,
but I was objecting to quoting numbers for deaths using figures that exclude these conditions
because a lot of people have them

Originally I said yes. Now I honestly don’t know.

I have not said any of these conditions increase risk, but I was objecting to quoting numbers for deaths using figures that exclude these conditions
because a lot of people have them

What? Only 307 people without serious preexisting conditions that increase risk of Covid have died. Your comment has no relevance here whatsoever.

That particular datasheet is

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-27-August-2020-weekly-file.xlsx

and clearer screenshot:

@MillyMollyFarmer

*I have not said any of these conditions increase risk, but I was objecting to quoting numbers for deaths using figures that exclude these conditions because a lot of people have them*

What? Only 307 people without serious preexisting conditions that increase risk of Covid have died. Your comment has no relevance here whatsoever.

... The relevance is that "underlying conditions of people under 60" excludes a significant number of people, including those with autism and LDs, diabetes etc

Give the full official death figures, not the cherry-picked ones that excludes even the young & middle-aged vulnerable

As someone who works for the NHS, I’m not at high risk of dying from ‘flu but I do my homework and have had a ‘flu jab every year for the past 8 years.

Why?

Not primarily to protect myself, but to protect the vulnerable groups of patients that I work with and to try to avoid having time off sick which would put more pressure on my colleagues.

After doing my homework again, I fully anticipate having a COVID-19 vaccine if it is offered.

This is the list here, on the NHS site. Those without these risks who have died under aged 60, total 307.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/

Muchtoomuchtodo Makes sense if you work in the nhs with vulnerable patients.

A significant number of people under 60 have conditions like autism, LDs, diabetes which ther NHS classes as "underlying conditions"

Cutting them out of totals for deaths under 60 is completely unjustified,
... even if you want to ignore deaths of people aged 60+ some of whom are working, including doctors & nurses

You say you have 2 with autism in your house - why should we delete deaths of people with autism when considering the number who died ?

@MillyMollyFarmer exactly.

And my point is that anybody who gets offered this vaccine should give serious consideration to having it, not just immediately rule it out

They may not necessarily be at high risk themselves, but it will protect those around us.

We really all are in this together and need to pull together to get back to doing a lot of the things that we previously took for granted.

If you are going to quote totals for deaths under 60 without underlying conditions,
then at least look at the NHS table of deaths I linked,

to understand who has been classed as having underlying conditions
to understand who you are excluding - people like those 2 in your house

Those conditions do include people with autism & LDs, even if not listed in your link for higher risks

Hear! Hear! @DCIRozHuntley

why should we delete deaths of people with autism when considering the number who died

We shouldn’t. That’s not what that figure does. Autism isn’t a serious health condition. The number of people dying who did not have a serious health condition is extremely low. The average age is 82. Only 2 children in total under 30 have died with, not necessarily of, Covid in the uk I think it is. It’s very low risk for a significant majority. That’s the point.

@MillyMollyFarmer

why should we delete deaths of people with autism when considering the number who died

We shouldn’t. That’s not what that figure does. Autism isn’t a serious health condition. The number of people dying who did not have a serious health condition is extremely low. The average age is 82. Only 2 children in total under 30 have died with, not necessarily of, Covid in the uk I think it is. It’s very low risk for a significant majority. That’s the point.

... The point is that the figure quoted for deaths under 60 without underlying conditions takes the underlying conditions quoted in that NHS table of deaths I linked, see screenshot below and subtracts them from the total deaths

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-27-August-2020-weekly-file.xlsx

NHS England include autism as an underlying condition in their deaths table, even if it's not in the list of conditions they warn about

That's an old NHS England table of deaths only to 26 August
but it contains
520 deaths of those with autism or LDs
plus 1,205 deaths of people treated for MH conditions

Just because there are no current plans to add to the childhood vaccine program it doesn't mean that they won't add it one day.

I see many hundreds of elderly people year on year who refuse the flu vaccine because they don't believe in it. I wonder how many of these will refuse one for COVID?
And no, as a healthy individual I wouldn't vaccinate myself to protect them. I have the antibodies (for now anyway) and will consider having a COVID vaccine when it's primarily offered for my benefit.

The ONS states that > 57,000 people died with Covid

OK if you want to say that is a small number for a 67 million population
It is a balance of minority vs majority benefits

My objection is the othering of deaths by age or by underlying condition

@cptartapp

I see many hundreds of elderly people year on year who refuse the flu vaccine because they don't believe in it. I wonder how many of these will refuse one for COVID? And no, as a healthy individual I wouldn't vaccinate myself to protect them. I have the antibodies (for now anyway) and will consider having a COVID vaccine when it's primarily offered for my benefit.

... So if a future pandemic threatens young people and children, you think it justifiable if the old refuse to be vaccinated to protect them and you would have no problem to mix with young people and kids at school who don't vaccinate ?

@Dominicgoings

Just that really. Based on a FB comment from a covid conspiracy family member. Who will, apparently be living her best ( normal) life because the vaccine will be ready in six months.

Is this a unique thought process?

That's weird. Most Covid conspiracy theorists are vehemently anti vax. Most of them think the vaccine with its nanochip ready for insertion into us is Bill Gates' end goal in this huge 'hoax'.

To all those people who think that they will be fine. I had kidney failure after getting an infection. This makes me higher risk for Covid. The doctors have no idea why it happened to me, there's no reason for it but it did and it could happen to you too. I wouldn't be so cocky.

Equally my extremely well (never catches the bugs me and the kids have) husband had Covid 19. 6 months later he's still coughing.

You are absolutely the most selfish and stupid people in this whole crisis.