Is it time we learned to live with Covid? BBC article today

[PennyDreadfuI]

From the BBC

I'm beginning to think that it might be (and I'm higher risk). It's here to stay, after all, and lockdowns every few months cannot go on indefinitely. All the money spent on lockdown measures could perhaps be ploughed into the NHS to pay for staff/hospitals to provide care for those who need it when they become ill (and to ease the backlog the last lockdown created).

As a fairly vulnerable person, I do think that we have to learn to live with Covid 19 around. I was already made redundant at the end of the first lockdown and almost lost my very vulnerable and elderly parents without ever being able to say goodbye.

Flip-flopping between lockdown and open up is far too damaging to the economy and therefore to many people's livelihoods as well as robs them of their freedoms to risk assess and come to their own informed decisions.

The virus isn't going anywhere. A vaccine may (or may not) be in the offing at some point during 2021. We cannot keep going the way we are.

I’m scared we will never go back to life how it was, this is it now, in fact I think it’s going to get a lot worse, not because of the virus but because of the way the government has handled it, just wave good bye to the way we used to live before March 2020.

@Porcupineinwaiting

So *@WiserOlder* can you unpack how that would look in practise? If COVID is washing through my office, do I need to keep going in or lose my job? If there's a big outbreak at school, must I send my kids in or be fined? How will ICU places be awarded - first come, first served, or by age or what? Masks optional?

It would look like precautions taken (masks, handwashing) but businesses OPEN.

people are very naive. There could easily be another zoonotic virus that is far more lethal but we are wasting people's patience and reserves (mental, financial, practical) on a virus that like the flu.

It isnt practical. We need to titrate restrictions against actual danger

As far as I was aware we are already "living with it"?

We can do most things with certain restrictions? My life is not miserable because I can't meet 6+ other people.

Adapting by increasing restrictions when needed and easing them when possible seems to be the only viable way to live with this virus without letting it overwhelm vital service and infrastructure, until a vaccine is available.

@ReadtheData

The second wave will bring a whole load more of Long Covid cases and I think people will think differently then.

I'd agree with you. The first wave killed off the most vulnerable.

Long Covid is a message that needs to be put out. That it's doing long term damage to younger people. Ok some might have underlying asthma and things but these are people who could live unhindered for 80 /90 years.

I certainly don't think its responsible to allow Covid to infect the population without trying to stop it. That's completely unfair on the medical professions who we'd all expect to treat people.

It seems that infection rates have been increasing since we came out of lockdown (probably just due to more cases being identified- previously those with mild symptoms weren't tested) - is this due to the virus always being there in the population and then being transmitted again more as people get out and about? In which case, lockdowns don't stop the spread they just delay it and after every lockdown there would be an increase in cases.

Just musing really but for the sake of everyone's sanity we need to get back to normal. It seems all the joy has gone out of life now

@CountessFrog

Time to consult the public?

What questions are you putting on the referendum paper?

A. Allow Covid to run free. Stop restrictions. If you get it tough shit. The NHS won't be able to help so stay home if you can't breathe.

B. We keep restrictions and try not to have people dying without trying to help them.

Are you also going to ask about disability payments for Long Covid sufferers?

A good 75% of people I know (including people in their 60s and older and ICU nurses and other health professionals) think we should go largely back to normal. It’s not a view I see as much on here though, where apparently all the elderly are scared to go out. Not where I live, they aren’t!

Why do people keep bleating about long covid? It does not exist- there are a very small number of people who suffer post- viral reactions.

This is the same with any virus and there is no evidence that COVID sufferers face any more severe or common symptoms of this. The vast majority of ‘long covid’ sufferers will have no symptoms after a few months.

Are you a doctor ecosse? Or do you have a time machine that lets you travel in the future ?

It's just doctors seem to say things like " we hope most problems will get better "

no one knows yet what the long term effects could be because there hasn't been time to see , but the NHS is worried enough to set up a specialist monitoring and support team

With the 'let's just live with it' etc message - what do people want to see happen with hospitals and the health service?

I don't necessarily disagree but the hospitals can't take everyone. Who do you choose to not received healthcare moving forward as it's a finite resource which is already reaching capacity ahead of winter.

Money can't be injected quickly as most people in the NHS take 3 years to train at uni for their role. There is no 'quick fix' for the staffing crisis.

I wish people would talk about this side of things. Yes covid took over in the spring. Things are opening again now but there isn't room for everything. Something in healthcare will have to stop.

If you ever had to treat somebody with Covid you wouldn’t be so cavalier about it. The average age of patient I cared for was early fifties. It was horrendous, a truly harrowing experience. I’m not going to do it again.

@Ecosse

Why do people keep bleating about long covid? It does not exist- there are a very small number of people who suffer post- viral reactions.

This is the same with any virus and there is no evidence that COVID sufferers face any more severe or common symptoms of this. The vast majority of ‘long covid’ sufferers will have no symptoms after a few months.

Are you sure that it's not just that you want to believe it isn't a major cause for concern? That you want to hang on to the idea that it's mainly just about life or death with the vast majority surviving and being ok?

@Ecosse

Why do people keep bleating about long covid? It does not exist- there are a very small number of people who suffer post- viral reactions.

This is the same with any virus and there is no evidence that COVID sufferers face any more severe or common symptoms of this. The vast majority of ‘long covid’ sufferers will have no symptoms after a few months.

Because in a small social circle I know two still suffering since March. And two friends of friends.

The only other people I've came across in my lifetime with long term viral issues were a polio survivor and a meningitis survivor.

Its seems a heck of a high percentage of people who are struggling to get over what's supposed to be a mild illness for most. It could be potIuck of a small population sample but something just doesn't add up.

Not all nurses feel this way though @VickySunshine. Two close friends have been treating COVID patients, one in ICU. Neither think the rules are proportionate and both continue to use grandparents for childcare.

Could not have just added your opinion to one of the previous let's just live with it threads? There is at least one a day to choose from.

people are very naive. There could easily be another zoonotic virus that is far more lethal but we are wasting people's patience and reserves (mental, financial, practical) on a virus that like the flu

I can't believe people are still saying this is just like the flu. True it is not the most lethal virus ever, but nor is it just like the flu.

@wafflyversatile

Could not have just added your opinion to one of the previous let's just live with it threads? There is at least one a day to choose from.

As previously mentioned this was specifically about the BBC news article today

tappitytaptap ... then they didn’t work where I did. I lost two colleagues and just about everybody I worked with has left Critical Care. I wish I could pretend it’s all gone away too.

I’m curious about the economic argument as well.

If you’re running a business and COVID is running through society how are you meant to manage staffing? And who will pay for the percentage of employees who end up with lingering symptoms for weeks or months so aren’t fit to return to work?

I’ve seen live theatre mentioned on MN a lot. How’s the West End show going to work when half the cast gets the virus and can’t sing and dance for a month? Or worse like this Broadway actor who died? www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53306462

Presymptomatic spread means people don’t know they’re ill for a few days which is why most rational societies are taking it more seriously than flu where by the time you’re contagious you’re starting to feel rough already.

@Bikingbear

I'd agree with you. The first wave killed off the most vulnerable.

It really didn’t. I don’t know where this idea has come from! 70% of care homes didn’t have outbreaks and 2.2m shielding people have remained shielded and uninflected, not to mention the other elderly - such as my parents - most of whom have been keeping safe.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t live with it, but don’t for a minute think there are no susceptible vulnerable left. There are literally millions.

Indeed, in it had swept through the vulnerable - despite the precautions taken - it would have swept through all of us and we’d have herd immunity as a country! Unfortunately, even though antibodies aren’t everything - with only 7% having antibodies, we’re a long way from that.

@wafflyversatile

Could not have just added your opinion to one of the previous let's just live with it threads? There is at least one a day to choose from.

As I've said four or five times now, including in the OP, this is with reference to the BBC article today (linked in OP).

I've just asked MNHQ to edit the title to include the BBC article

No I don’t want to go back to “normal”. I think that would be irresponsible given our health service being overstretched every winter, even without Covid. I have lots of friends who are doctors some of who were on Covid wards (which were terrible for them). I wish people would stop moaning and blaming the government all the time. Surely we can all make some social life sacrifices for a bit and use modern technology to somewhat stay in touch with each other. I know it isn’t ideal and my children will be very upset to not have the usual Halloween/fireworks/Christmas trilogy but it is my duty as a parent to tell them it will be ok and think of some alternative creatively. I appreciate it is harder for the very young. I think they should continue to have a right to an education ideally in person and for recent graduates etc/those between stages I would like to see funded additional qualification opportunities whilst they wait for things to become more normal.

This is one of the most depressing threads I have ever read on Mumsnet.

It’s not the flu.
Increased morbidity across infected population
You don’t get immunity from a coronavirus.
Reinfections run a risk of ADE. Iran already on third wave, with many reports of ADE among healthcare workers
Risk of much shortened life expectancy due to depleted T cells. Impact on child immunological development as yet unknown.
Economy will be fucked because of burden of long term chronic ill-health, waves of illness & fear of disease
Chronic shortages of health care workers due to increased mortality & morbidity among that workforce, thereby compounding ongoing public health crisis.

Yes life has been ugly, short & brutish for much of human history. It was generally considered bad.
WTF are you all so prepared to give up so easily & so quickly on the health, longevity & prosperity gains of recent decades is beyond me.