Why not a short VERY strict lockdown now to nip in bid so to speak??

[shesellsseashells99]

Would it not make sense to act now with a very strict national lockdown for maybe 2 weeks? Instead of waiting until everything is out of control again....

The ‘cure‘ is becoming worse than the disease when the health and well-being of the whole population is taken into account.

Recent interventions eg rule of six are not even evidence-based.

Thanks meds. It's the same link I look at each day.

The virus has largely ripped through those who were vulnerable to it.

It hasn’t. 2 million people were on the shielding list and most of them are still alive.

But let me guess, you think we should just lock them up so the rest of the country can keep going to the pub?

A long lockdown that the majority of people adhered to didn't work. What do you think a short lockdown that everyone will ignore will achieve?

@Grobagsforever

You do understand that there are a number of reasons why this information isn't available from a 'reputable source' just yet don't you?

And that actually these 'reputable sources' are usually filled with interpretations and limitations which mean that it's probably not a true picture anyway.

Obviously not everyone has access to first hand information which is a shame because if they did they would understand the dread which is currently being experienced by lots of NHS professionals who are saying 'I don't know if I can go through this again'. Combine that with the fact that healthcare placements almost ground to a standstill between March and the summer (apart from the bizarre and senseless paid placements idea which was a total waste of time and money). We're in the shit.

I don't necessarily agree with a further lockdown, I don't know enough about it, but these people who are so blinkered about it really do make me cross.

A long lockdown that the majority of people adhered to didn't work. What do you think a short lockdown that everyone will ignore will achieve?

But it did work and so will other lockdowns. .

A vaccine won't bring no risk it probably bring it down to 70%, so mask wearing and social distancing will I'm sure carry on for the most vulnerable indefinitely.

@MintyMabel

The virus has largely ripped through those who were vulnerable to it.

It hasn’t. 2 million people were on the shielding list and most of them are still alive.

But let me guess, you think we should just lock them up so the rest of the country can keep going to the pub?

I realise that this is perhaps too logical for many, but if those people need to shield, then they are going to be locked up anyway - along with everyone else (who isn't ignoring it anyway now). What sense is there in locking everyone up?

We have tried suppression. It hasn't worked. So actually yes - let's allow people who are vulnerable to shield if that is their wish, support them to do that, guarantee their income while they must shield, and the rest of us get on with life and herd immunity building. Because what everyone has done so far hasn't worked, and the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

But it did work and so will other lockdowns

What is your definition of "working"? The virus went nowhere, coming out of lockdown has the world (not just the country, the world) spiralling back to pre lockdown levels, the economy is in tatters, thousands have lost their jobs and there are more losses to come, businesses are collapsing, and the mental and physical health of the country (leaving Covid aside) has deteriorated to appalling levels. If that is "working" then I'd hate to see "failing".

The virus isn't going anywhere that's the point! We are buying time to adjust to living with a new virus that once we have a vaccine will give us some space to breath, but life will be very different to precovid! We will still be mask wearing and social distancing for a long time

Lockdown was used to slow transmission not to eradicate the virus.

Letting the virus pass through the working population will bring its own issues.

That said I have no idea how me or my family will cope with another lockdown.

A short lockdown is like a crash diet and then going back to your normal way of eating afterwards
We need to find a sustainable way of living with the virus
just like if you want to be slim you need to find a sustainable way of eating healthily

@felineflutter

The virus isn't going anywhere that's the point! We are buying time to adjust to living with a new virus that once we have a vaccine will give us some space to breath, but life will be very different to precovid! We will still be mask wearing and social distancing for a long time

If we have a vaccine IF

@Heffalooomia

A short lockdown is like a crash diet and then going back to your normal way of eating afterwards We need to find a sustainable way of living with the virus just like if you want to be slim you need to find a sustainable way of eating healthily

Nothing to do with the thread but there is evidence VLCD's do work now. The NHS are looking at it too for diabetes.

You still get fat if you go back to your old way of eating after a vlcd

A sustainable way will be a vaccine. It will give good immunity if combined with a mask and social distancing. Also we may find immunity keeps us pretty safe for a year or two which could make living with covid a whole lot better in the future.

Surely it's not hard to understand why Governments around the world are cautious and don't want a novel virus to rip through the population.

@Moondust001

Sadly, I agree with you. The shielded have to stay home and the rest of us have to drive the economy, through working AND spending. Including the pub, because pubs provide THOUSANDS of jobs which feed families.

But the Tories will never get on board with this logical view because of the grey vote.

It's not a good idea to make assumptions about vaccines

I am not making assumptions just putting across possibilities. Worse case scenario we continue like this forever and train up people to just work in Nightingale facilities to care for the vulnerable and elderly and keep society going so hospitals are not overwhelmed and resign ourselves to the fact that we may die early.

This virus is staying around. It’s just delaying the inevitable. The ^only^ hope is a vaccine. If they can’t come up with a vaccine I dread to think what’s going to happen.

I think there could be civil unrest with two camps. That’s my worry.

This reminds me of something that my previous company used to do to massage the figures - every time we went over that years budget and senior management used to complain we used to suddenly take an age to backfill roles even though they were essential. Service levels would drop and complaints rise BUT every recruitment delay saved cash and took the heat off the budget.

Our government are useless - again numbers are rising so the answer toted is lockdown. It will reduce the surface numbers of Covid sufferers but what damage is being done to the economy and to the people that can’t access healthcare.

The way out of this until a vaccine is available is effective track and trace not this bullshit we’ve got at the moment.

@felineflutter

I am not making assumptions just putting across possibilities. Worse case scenario we continue like this forever and train up people to just work in Nightingale facilities to care for the vulnerable and elderly and keep society going so hospitals are not overwhelmed and resign ourselves to the fact that we may die early.

Apologies for my harsh wording Feline🙏 Some other possibilities and scenarios that occur to me: Better treatments, better understanding of who is susceptible to the virus and why, so not just underlying conditions and comorbidities but genetic factors that might make someone resistant Greater understanding of how transmission occurs, and the significance of viral load

Our government are useless
The highest priority of the government is staying in power and preserving existing wealth and power structures.
A stainable way of living with the virus would take us in an egalitarian direction, in direct contradiction with what they want

2 weeks could actually cause more of an issue than it prevents, I think.

Person A is a student. They are asymptomatic. They are now stuck in with their 5 housemates for 2 weeks, seeing each other constantly, breathing the same air. Person A notices a very slight cough but doesn't get tested because why would they? They're not able to go anywhere anyway, so it's a faff that won't benefit them.

By Day 14 the cough is long-gone and they venture out into the world absolutely fine. And their five, now-infected, housemates who are not yet showing any signs of being poorly head out to their lectures to spread a bit of plague.

Anything that's going to be effective needs to be longer.

@ Grobagsforever The restriction is on the source material and details not on a passing comment about increases and reporting methodology changes ( which are already in public domain).

As I said on the other thread where everyone is listing all the things they need to rush out to achieve before the "2nd lockdown", that's totally the wrong mindset.

Forget the "next lockdown", everyone needs to shift their mindset NOW, away from reacting to lockdowns and curfews by trying to pack it all in quickly (like calling time before the pub shuts), and towards how to live longterm with this virus to make it bearable and safe for themselves and others. Reduce high risk activities and getting with the science of wearing face masks wherever possible, good hygiene all of the time not just sometimes, and keeping social distancing (not walking around Tesco tapping away on their mobile and not giving a toss about SD).

It's a choice we can all make now, irrespective of a 2nd, 3rd or nth lockdown but some people are being reactive and in denial. It's all about their next holiday because they're worth it, and the Costa Coffee cappuccino because that's what they've always done.

I understand the Bolton spike happened because someone went abroad on holiday, returned with asymptomatic C19 and did not quarantine despite the regs, but instead had the bright idea of going on a pub crawl, spreading the virus around town. People need to realise this behaviour has to stop. Just like drink driving is now vilified in society, so must this selfish behaviour. They are putting other people's safety at risk, even if they think they're OK, they're low risk, the rules don't apply to them yada yada yada. Unless more people in the population are willing to shift their mindset, then a lockdown can only ever be a short quick fix which isn't sustainable.