Is this allowed under “group of 6”?

[Peasbewithyou]

Can I have 4 friends over one evening (socially distanced - we have open plan downstairs so space isn’t an issue), while DH & 3 kids are upstairs? The kids would be sleeping and DH either watching TV or working. So in the house would be a total of 9 people but on totally different floors and there are toilets on both floors so is it several “groups” so no reason for anyone to come into contact with anyone else.

It seems a bit ridiculous when if we went to a pub there could be another who knows how many people there sitting in groups just a metre or so away!

So would this be legal or illegal?

This isn't really about the rule of 6 and the virus, it's just a stealth boast about having so many friends you just can't fit them all in. It is getting so tedious people. If you think you are special, break the rules. Crack on. But don't dare then come back here and moan about your child's school being closed, or not being able to go for a meal at your favourite restaurant because it's closed down.

@cologne4711

This isn't really about the rule of 6 and the virus, it's just a stealth boast about having so many friends you just can't fit them all in. It is getting so tedious people. If you think you are special, break the rules. Crack on. But don't dare then come back here and moan about your child's school being closed, or not being able to go for a meal at your favourite restaurant because it's closed down.

4 friends... a boast? What a weird thing to say .

Cologne - the point is that there is no connection between the rules and the prevention of infection - even the the govt advisers have admitted that there is no rhyme or reason to the then. I would be much more concerned about, for example, a group of five people from separate households meeting together, even though it's legal, than the OP's proposed evening.

Human Rights Lawyer Adam Wagner looked at this the other day in response to the following question.

𝕕𝕒𝕧𝕖 𝕓𝕚𝕤𝕙 @davebish
Thanks for this work. Trying to work out if my sleeping children upstairs count as part of a "gathering" downstairs in my home?

Wagner's response was that it wasn't entirely clear from the exact wording of the law, but he said the following:

Adam Wagner @AdamWagner1
A few people asking this. If you look at the definition of gathering it requires some form of intentional engagement in social or other activity together. Sleeping children aren't doing that. I don't see how they count in the 'gathering' if they are upstairs asleep

On the face of the legislation this is completely legal. However, I don’t think I’d do it because it doesn’t “feel” within the spirit of the rules.

It’s still more than 6 people in your property. If one of those people is carrying the virus they could easily spread it between even just half of you eventually, as being in a house you are naturally in more close contact for longer periods. I know 6 seems a random number but other countries have also a select number too. Someone mentioned five in Belgium earlier and apparently it’s working there.

But so many don’t want to hear it anymore so will do whatever they want: it won’t happen to them and it’s just a flu or it’s not real and scamdemic

The government, their contradictions and horrendous handling of this have lost a lot of people now. The rule of six won’t work as people won’t follow. And then will claim it doesn’t work when cases rise ridiculously.

I don’t know why people keep asking questions on threads like this, they know it’s not within the rule of 6 but will do it regardless no matter the replies.

I’m so with you OP the groups do not met and are separated by floors. Ask yourself are there real risks to us doing this? Answer no. Someone else houses maybe there would be risk. Tiny rooms or shared loos etc You have to apply common sense. We are in for the long haul if we need to make 100% safe decisions that mean life is tiny bit easier it benefits everyone. It will not make a difference to the disease if you make husband and kids sit in the car for your book club or stay upstairs !

This seems one step from saying that babies in prams don't count which really seems against the clear intention of the law. If there is a shared bathroom I really can't see this flying.

I would say that's fine as they are sleeping would police really go upstairs and check who is sleeping?

I was thinking too could we have 4 adults inside and 4 kids outside in the garden?

Obviously having people over in group of 6 or fewer is a “risk” but it’s not more of a risk to OP in the living room if the rest of her family are in the house or not. If she’s going get it she’s going get it.

I have read the legislation and agree with those saying that:
a) the DH and children, if in fact they never meet the other people, are not part of the gathering and
b) there is no part of the legislation that says by definition that everyone in the grounds of the house and garden are definitely part of a gathering on that property.

In fact, the 'mingle' part of the legislation probably helps this interpretation. Whilst 'participating in the gathering' the person (OP) may not 'mingle' with another group. So she may not mingle [I would read 'be in the same room with'] her DH or children.

I’d do it, tonight I had five rugby guys over as it had been my turn to wash kit which meant there were 8 people in the flat for abour twenty minutes, technically not allowed.

I then went to full contact training with a total of 23 rugby guys, allowed under the new rules.

One isn’t allowed, the one that is allowed requires me to be inches away from several heavily breathing mouths/noses several times and passing an often spit covered ball.

It's more than 6 so nope.

@notevenat20

This seems one step from saying that babies in prams don't count which really seems against the clear intention of the law. If there is a shared bathroom I really can't see this flying.

The logic of Adam Wagner would be if the baby was with you when you met other people (as in was present in the gathering) the baby would count.

BUT

If you met in the garden and the baby was upstairs in the house and asleep for the duration of the gathering you'd be fine.

BUT

If you had a 5 year old who was asleep and then woke up and came down in the middle of the gathering and interupted you, you'd be breaking the law.

In theory.

BUT there was still some debate about number of people on the premises.

Its clear as mud basically, and even a lawyer with a speciality in this area couldn't work it out definitively.

A question to those who think 8 people (from 2 households) may not be in the same house and garden at the same time - if I took my family of 6 to stand in my parents' garden, none of us ever went inside the house and they never came out:
a) is this be something which should be illegal because doing it might spread the virus?
b) do you think it is illegal under this legislation?

It's fairly simple (if very stupid). 6 people allowed in one private house together unless more than 6 people live there.
So it's not allowed.

@Whydoyouthinkthatthen

A question to those who think 8 people (from 2 households) may not be in the same house and garden at the same time - if I took my family of 6 to stand in my parents' garden, none of us ever went inside the house and they never came out: a) is this be something which should be illegal because doing it might spread the virus? b) do you think it is illegal under this legislation?

A) I personally don't think it should be illegal b) If you are speaking to them through a window or something then it might well be illegal. But stupid.

@Whydoyouthinkthatthen

A question to those who think 8 people (from 2 households) may not be in the same house and garden at the same time - if I took my family of 6 to stand in my parents' garden, none of us ever went inside the house and they never came out: a) is this be something which should be illegal because doing it might spread the virus? b) do you think it is illegal under this legislation?

They would be interacting with each other in a social way so it would be classed as a gathering which would be technically illegal under the wording of the legislation.

They had this sort of example on the news
(It was kids upstairs asleep, adults downstairs) and they said it was illegal in England.

chasingrainbows how do 3 people sleeping / isolated upstairs, not crossing the stair boundary at all, increase the risk of the virus spreading?

I personally think 6 different households is too many, I'd see this reduced, but given the law is currently 6 then OP is meeting in a group of 5 and the additional people make zero difference to anything practically, and the legal position seems fine to me too.

So if OP is within the spirit / intention of the law, which I'd argue she is, and within the letter of the law, which I'd also argue she is, what is the problem?

The law might be too loose, fine, and maybe in your opinion OP should exercise extra caution and not invite more than 1 or 2 other people over, but that's not really your call.

It's illegal. But shouldn't be like you say you'd be nearer in a pub which is allowed. Madness. Have fun x

Keeponmoving where in the legislation does it say that, specifically 6 people allowed in one private house together?

I can see where it says no more than 6 May gather for the purpose of social interaction, but a sleeping child isn't socially interacting.

I'm intrigued it said it was illegal in the news evilpea, who said it? Was it a gov legal expert?

Even if it was, with the current gov's recent track record I wouldn't trust their legal experts as far as I could throw them.

This is a brand new law and as PP said, until there is a test case its impossible to say which way it goes. I'm using a reasonable interpretation of sleeping children separated by inches of building material and many cubic metres of space to be not socially interacting

Thanks all for the comments! I am slightly incredulous at the couple of pp suggesting that if I do this and potentially break the law I will get what’s coming to me in terms of the virus, school closed etc etc but would be fine if I abided by the law and took my friends to the pub where we will have to sit at a single table (much, much closer together than in my large open plan space where we could be around 1-2m apart) and share the room (and toilets) with many many other random people... At home I would thoroughly bleach surfaces, toilets etc before and after. Change hand towels. We usually bring our own glasses and drinks so as not to have to touch each other’s. Hand sanitiser at the ready. Windows can be open. I actually also own an air purifier which can filter out viral particles (not that I would rely on this but just to add). PLUS The kids and DH would not at any time even be in the same room.

I’m sorry but you cannot persuade me that it’s safer to go to the pub. That might be the legal option, yes. And I get that we should be meeting fewer people in general. That makes sense! So I might not do this at all! I am happy to limit my social life for the greater good but the question I was asking was not about whether this was risky or not from a virus point of view, it’s whether it is legal or not!

Illegal but just do it

It’s all such bollocks. Just don’t have a rave .

Meet up with a few friends and enjoy life.