Looks like shielding might be returning

[2X4B523P]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8727553/Up-4-5million-risk-Covid-told-stay-home-new-shielding-plan.html

Couldn’t see another thread but excuse me if I’ve missed it.

So shielding is currently paused and it looks like there’s a plan to restart it and with extended to more people.

@NervousInYorkshire I am on a Facebook shielding group and read texts like yours. I think it’s just different councils wording texts differently.

I think the difference this time is the mention of age and weight. Last time shielding applied to medical conditions.
I expect the age aspect will be less controversial as long as it doesn't go below 65 or 70 as most will be retired and many over 70 will already be voluntarily staying at home or away from other people.
The issue seems to be weight, and rightly so. The risk for an obese but not elderly female does not seem to be that high. It is much higher to be male and obese. So the government will need to take that into account. Plus many obese people do not have diabetes, contrary to popular opinion. Being obese is only a risk factor for diabetes, not one and the same. So if the risk of dying from Covid-19 is increased due to diabetes, it is important to define the vulnerability as diabetes not obesity.

@EDSGFC You seem to be missing one vital word in all of this.

But that's exactly the advice for shielded people - don't go out, even for exercise.

Advice does not mean you HAVE to .

It means it's possibly for you but use your own judgement.
For instance, a fit 70 yr old woman may be at less risk than a 50 year old fat man.

There is an online tool where anyone can work out their risk score by putting in their age, weight, health conditions and gender.

Obesity is an increased risk even without diabetes

Prepared to get flamed here, shielders were 'advised' not to work, now here's the thing, I work in the NHS, it has had the most divisive period over the past six months within staffing, the shielders (including the over 70's, of which there are a lot in my trust), have been off. They have been on full pay, no issues there, however also on enhancements(weekend shifts/out of hours allowances), hardly any additional staff to cover them, the rest of the team have worked their arses off, if you had the choice to shield on full pay, or go into work, what would you do? Now just starting back in to work, but mostly in areas of stringent social distancing, hard to manage this, have also had their annual from the time they were off reinstated. If you have worked whilst they have been off, coped with all the additional really hard work, how would you feel?, especially when you know for a fact that some of them have not been isolating? Others who have seen this have gone off with 'stress, or anxiety'easy enough to get a gp certificate when they are not doing face to face appointments. If you are lucky enough to have bank staff to work in your area, not only are the NHS paying them, but also the ones shielding, empty coffers and deep pockets eh Boris? Some staff are sitting around due to lack of services being maintained, others running around until they are seriously so tired to make competent decisions. Surely the over 70's shouldn't be working in the NHS or any other business, do we all have to work until we're dead, quite literally?likewise if you are that ill you can't work in a health care environment without needing it's services why are you taking up a role that someone else could do? I know what I am saying is so awful and contentious, it is , however what I have heard quite openly being said at work, the thought of a 2nd lot of shielding will send some people completely over the edge, the NHS is hard enough without this again. I don't want to see anyone ill, hence joining the NHS , but sometimes let's be open about what is real life? If you were in the private sector and hadn't worked for six months, then another possibility of a further six months off on full pay, how would your business be?

What about the doctors, business owners, nurses, teachers, etc who are among the 4.5 million? Lots of "vulnerable" have pretty important jobs!

As do the millions of people who live with them and will have to risk the virus and likely passing it on.

@Hereinthesticks

I'm afraid to say I don't think it will work. As I said, what happens to the NHS? Many of their staff will fall into these categories. The NHS can't be left understaffed, but equally we can't say NHS staff who are vulnerable should be afforded less protection than someone in the private sector.

The figure 4.5 millions doesn't mean much if they live with other people, as point out above. So it could mean millions more restricting their lives to protect the shielders they live with. Plus many of the shielders will have school-aged children.

Plus how does the government even attempt to deal with the huge issues of BAME risk factors? If they don't then it's a huge omission, if they do then it's a massive PC issue.

Age is simpler - it is clear that the over 70/80s are very high risk. Most will not be still working so the issues of work are less relevant and many will not be living with school-aged children. Still contentious though.

What about schools and teachers? Who will take their classes on? What about children who are shielding? Who will teach them? Who will pick up kids from school? and so on. I cannot see it happening tbh.

@midgebabe

Obesity is an increased risk even without diabetes

It is, but it’s an increased risk of a small risk so still a small risk.

@rockingthelook

Prepared to get flamed here, shielders were 'advised' not to work, now here's the thing, I work in the NHS, it has had the most divisive period over the past six months within staffing, the shielders (including the over 70's, of which there are a lot in my trust), have been off. They have been on full pay, no issues there, however also on enhancements(weekend shifts/out of hours allowances), hardly any additional staff to cover them, the rest of the team have worked their arses off, if you had the choice to shield on full pay, or go into work, what would you do? Now just starting back in to work, but mostly in areas of stringent social distancing, hard to manage this, have also had their annual from the time they were off reinstated. If you have worked whilst they have been off, coped with all the additional really hard work, how would you feel?, especially when you know for a fact that some of them have not been isolating? Others who have seen this have gone off with 'stress, or anxiety'easy enough to get a gp certificate when they are not doing face to face appointments. If you are lucky enough to have bank staff to work in your area, not only are the NHS paying them, but also the ones shielding, empty coffers and deep pockets eh Boris? Some staff are sitting around due to lack of services being maintained, others running around until they are seriously so tired to make competent decisions. Surely the over 70's shouldn't be working in the NHS or any other business, do we all have to work until we're dead, quite literally?likewise if you are that ill you can't work in a health care environment without needing it's services why are you taking up a role that someone else could do? I know what I am saying is so awful and contentious, it is , however what I have heard quite openly being said at work, the thought of a 2nd lot of shielding will send some people completely over the edge, the NHS is hard enough without this again. I don't want to see anyone ill, hence joining the NHS , but sometimes let's be open about what is real life? If you were in the private sector and hadn't worked for six months, then another possibility of a further six months off on full pay, how would your business be?

I totally get this. I just think shielding if its done will bring up huge issues. It was fine before with lockdown but not now. At least, they cannot do it in the way that they did.

@MadameBlobby

True *@donnadenise* but I run, cycle and planning to start swimming again this week, not so easy to do from the front room.

Coach to fitness is home based and looks good, it's what I've started doing. I was running and swimming but can't fit it in now.

In Scotland it was interesting to note that shielding was paused at the same time as schools going back meaning that children and teachers and any staff working in a school for that matter could resume going back to work.
If they hadn't paused shielding,, there would be a huge issue with children/staff at school. Also those needing to go back to work when the kids were cared for and getting the economy going. It seems all tied up.

My dad told me today he’s expecting a letter this week
He thinks anyone over 65 will be asked to shield
No idea where he was told this

Madame, I think they are going to have to define what risk is considered acceptable. A well controlled diabetic may have twice the risk of a none diabetic of the same sex and age,

Two times not a lot is till not a lot.
It's possible that a female diabetic would have the same risk a a man her age...would not be sensible to shield her and not the man

@MaxNormal

In which case you need to accept that you May get very very ill and die... or stay home for six months and live.

A woman under 50, even an obese one, is highly, highly unlikely to die of covid.

Exactly. Even in over 90s with an underlying health condition, there is over an 85% survival rate.

Plus you might stay home for 6 months and them die of something else! Covid isnt the only thing around that can kill you (far from it)

@JinglingHellsBells

It's not just those shielding, it's their household members too, i.e. spouses, children, etc - they wouldn't be able to go to work/school either

It never meant any of that!

It meant that the advice was you reduced contact with anyone out of your home and stayed away from shops, public transport etc but no one could make you do that.

@JinglingHellsBells the original shielding letter said children of people who are shielding shouldn’t attend school.

He thinks anyone over 65 will be asked to shield
No idea where he was told this

I think there’s a lot of over 65s who won’t shield if that’s the case as they have to work

@SexTrainGlue

The original shielding group was intended to be 1.5m people, but ended up at 2.5m (3% of the population, no age categories)

Those people always knew they could be recalled to shielding in local or national lockdowns

I expect type 1 diabetics will be added if the expansion plan is true - but if they add type 2 as well, then they'd need a bigger increase than the one suggested.

Well the risk to T2 is reported to be as high as to T1, so they really can't pick & choose.

I had Glandular fever & a virus that attacked my liver. It basically screwed my body up badly. I was slim then (around 71/2 stone) I put on loads of weight after that and they couldn't stop it it help me. (Eating Carefully/healthily & exerting) I wasn't diagnosed with T2 until much later, but the Drs agree that my weight is due to the medical issues/T2, and NOT the other way around. But people always assume I'm just fat & 'deserve' my T2.

Many T2's are the same, but people are disbelieving. It's upsetting & difficult to deal with.

It's also virtually fucking impossible to lose weight. I eat low carb, I don't eat a lot, I exercise - but I cannot lose weight.

But yet again, people think T1's should be shielded, but T2's 'deserve it' and just need to carry on.

It also told you to keep away from everyone else in your house.

The only choice most of us had was to get our whole families to shield with us if we could.

I'm not really sure quite what the agenda is with people emphasising the 'choice'. I mean, no, we weren't under house-arrest, but we watched what was happening in Italy, leaned about intubation (which was the approved treatment for severe covid in March) & also leaned about the three wise men protocol. (Google it).

Speaking personally, I have experienced periods of extreme ill-health, & am very aware of what that means for myself and my family if it happens again. I'm expected to live a normal life-span, but only if I'm careful (and lucky). I work, and up until lockdown had a normal life, which I'd worked hard to maintain throughout my periods of ill-health.

Glibly telling me I had a 'choice' not to shield is pretty tone-deaf, at best.

Apparently there are nearly 12 million over 65s in the UK...

The point in emphasizing choice was to address the surveillance busy bodies who feel they can sit in judgement about how people with a shielding invite conducted themselves over lockdown.

Wouldn't be ideal for me. I'm already vulnerable and now I'm pregnant. I was furloughed from March to July. If I have to shield I might as well quit my job because chances are by the time it's lifted I'll be on maternity leave. What family wants a nanny who basically hasn't worked for 18 months

@JinglingHellsBells

Oh FGS!

There seems to be the same misunderstanding now as back then.

Do none of the posters here understand that SHIELDING IS GUIDANCE.

It was drawing people attention to the fact they were vulnerable and for their own good they ought to take certain measures.

It was NOT LAW and could not be enforced.

You can do what you want if you shield. But accept the risks.

Yeah, I'm not sure that was the sentiment behind this post.

People know the risks, to ourselves and others if the vulnerable have to isolate for the sake of society so be it. The country can’t afford another lockdown. so a different approach is needed.
If people are genuinely concerned about their health status, they need to take the necessary precautions. I am fed up with apportioning blame to different groups.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions.

Returning?
We’ve never stopped. Husband is vulnerable woth asthmas and we have been shielding since mid March. We haven’t gone to any shops or public places and are both working from home. We see our daughters in the garden and don’t see anyone else.
IMO if everyone in the UK had been more strict with themselves, we perhaps wouldn’t be in this predicament now.
People who need a holiday, or need to eat out have not helped stopping the spread of this virus.

@Twospaniels Us too.... Its been a very long time....