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Did you know about this back door vaccine consultation?

72 replies

tinkywinkyshandbag · 12/09/2020 21:33

Doing the rounds on social media. I've responded. Whichever side of the vaccine debate you sit on this is important.

After 18th Sept, The Government are going to say they consulted the public and because there were no objections, we all want and consent to the rollout of unlicensed #vaccines, and that we are happy for non-medical staff to administer them and happy to accept we will not have the ability to ask for compensation if we face damage to our health.

They are going to say, you agreed to it (because no one saw this #Consultation request to share their opinion of course), this request is not being seen by many and has not been promoted widely enough.

Please don’t fall into apathy and then complain when it’s too late.

NB: click on the photo and then look for the blue ‘respond on line’, click on the words to go to the right place to share your views on each aspect of the potentially harmful new law they want to pass.

Please reshare this and make sure you contribute!

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu

OP posts:
ItsGoingTibiaK · 12/09/2020 21:38

I’ve seen it shared literally hundreds of times. It hardly seems to be “back door”.

tinkywinkyshandbag · 12/09/2020 21:55

Only back door in the sense that people are posting about it on social media but I've seen nothing in the press or elsewhere. I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all but there are so many vested interests when it comes to drugs/vaccines. I just think this is too important not for us all to be talking about.

OP posts:
Smellbellina · 12/09/2020 21:58

I don’t really understand this tbh but on the face of it I wouldn’t want to have those vaccines

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 12/09/2020 22:00

I would be reluctant to have a vaccination from someone who isn't a medical professional. I did read somewhere that vets might be administering the vaccine. I've no idea if it's true or not but I wouldn't have a problem with that.

lljkk · 12/09/2020 22:00

Was another thread about this, this morning.

Shouldbedoing · 12/09/2020 22:03

Using 'differently trained people is about having enough troops on the ground to roll out a vaccination programme quickly. As long as the protocols and pre immunisation screening are sound, what's the problem. Some GP practices have the receptionist trained to take.blood samples.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 12/09/2020 22:09

For me the whole thing is a problem as I have a severe needle phobia. The thought of having the injection is bad enough, but having it done by a non medical professional makes it seem worse to my irrational mind!

As for receptionists taking blood, no offence to any doctor's receptionist on here, but if I have to go through the trauma of a blood test I want it done by someone with years of experience!

rainbowunicorn · 12/09/2020 22:30

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

For me the whole thing is a problem as I have a severe needle phobia. The thought of having the injection is bad enough, but having it done by a non medical professional makes it seem worse to my irrational mind!

As for receptionists taking blood, no offence to any doctor's receptionist on here, but if I have to go through the trauma of a blood test I want it done by someone with years of experience!

Many doctors receptionists are fully trained to take bloods and are often better at it than the GP's. Surely once a person is trained to do something then that makes them perfectly capable of doing it whether it be taking bloods, doing injections or doing brain surgery. At the end of the day everyone has to be trained to do their job so why would you not want somebody that was trained specifically to the procedure.
ItsGoingTibiaK · 12/09/2020 22:35

@ItsGoingTibiaK

I’ve seen it shared literally hundreds of times. It hardly seems to be “back door”.
It's not aimed at the general public. Many consultations aren't. It's aimed at particular groups who have the kind of specialist, detailed knowledge of vaccinations, legislation, liabilities etc to be able to provide intelligent, useful, coherent input. That's why it's not being particularly publicised to the general public.

With the best will in the world, hundreds of people writing in with their views because they watched a David Icke video and thought it made sense is not going to progress this in any useful way. Likewise for hundreds of people writing in because they read that biochemist's letter that went viral and think it's a slam-dunk case.

You've clearly copied and pasted this directly from a social media site, rather than consider the issue and write your own post about it. That's how hundreds of people will approach responding to this consultation - they'll copy and paste some boilerplate text from someone who also doesn't really understand the incredibly complicated nuances of this issue which, on what is supposed to be a meaningful consultation, will be utterly pointless.

From the consultation document:

Even though we are happy to receive comments from anyone, the purpose of this consultation exercise is to engage directly with specific stakeholders that we have identified. The UK government will be holding discussions with those stakeholders, at which it will be going into further detail about the proposals. This consultation document has been produced to support those discussions.

What that means, in practice, is that the consultees to whom this document is addressed are a specialist audience, made up of people and organisations that we would expect have a detailed knowledge of the legislative and practical context in which these proposals sit – and also of the likely impact of the measures. It is also an audience generally used to discussing draft legislation without having all of the detail explained.

That means providing in this document less detail than the general reader might like – but a level of detail that is proportionate to the exercise. We do appreciate that some people may prefer us to have undertaken a different sort of consultation exercise, even in the limited time available. This is one of the reasons why some of the provisions are time limited or have review provisions built into them. Some debates will necessarily be renewed, whatever the outcome of this consultation exercise.

ItsGoingTibiaK · 12/09/2020 22:36

Quote fail - that was in response to @tinkywinkyshandbag rather than myself!

BillywilliamV · 12/09/2020 22:39

You don’t have to have spent 6 years in medical school to administer one injection.

user165423256322 · 12/09/2020 22:46

The proposals would expand the workforce that can administer COVID-19 and flu vaccinations under an NHS or local authority occupational health scheme so that it also includes midwives, nursing associates, operating department practitioners, paramedics, physiotherapists and pharmacists.

Not the scariest proposal I've ever read.

WorriedNHSer · 12/09/2020 22:47

If you had read the documents for the consultation you would have found out that they aren’t suggesting that non-healthcare professionals be drafted in to administer vaccines but rather that a range of different healthcare professionals other than nurses be given additional training to enable them to do so.

What they’re suggesting is that, for example, midwives might be able to give the vaccine not that the receptionist should be trained to do it. Only registered healthcare professionals will be asked to do this.

ZarasHouse · 12/09/2020 22:52

I'm not trying to minimise the jobs our healthcare workers do, but actually of all the jobs that a lay person could do an IM vaccine is there alongside testing blood sugars, administering Epipen, blood thinning injections, insulin, etc. All things which people do themselves on a regular basis. If they could quickly create a safe DIY vaccine I'm sure that would be much better in a lot of ways.

LearnedResponse · 12/09/2020 22:53

I’ve just had my DS’s HPV booster jab done by a pharmacist. His arm seems not to have fallen off. Thousands of non-HCPs with various health conditions regularly administer injections to themselves after brief instructions.

Kljnmw3459 · 12/09/2020 22:57

I had a look at the proposal but I don't understand the full background and all the intricacies of it.

Timeforanotherusername · 12/09/2020 23:02

If the health professionals aren't up in arms (which if they were it would be in the Guardian) then I don't think you need to be.

Now it may be in the Guardian - I haven't checked but it strikes me as some crap on Social Media.

Russian bots?

MadameBlobby · 12/09/2020 23:05

I’ve read all of it previously and have no issues. I’ll be getting a vaccine as soon as I can once one is available.

What specifically are your concerns?

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 12/09/2020 23:12

Teaching someone to give an injection takes minutes, many people are shown how to do their own. It doesn't take a nurse. Student nurses have to learn how to do them, healthcare support workers can learn in minutes, and they are the ones locally who take blood for a living.

Frazzled2207 · 12/09/2020 23:16

I honestly don’t see the problem with this, unless as pp suggested the people who potentially will need to administer are up in arms about it, which as far as I know they are not.
If/when there is a vaccine then frankly it needs to be all hands on deck to get us all immunised as efficiently as possible while also not letting other parts of the NHS grind to a halt

AntiHop · 12/09/2020 23:17

The reminds me of all the "Lisbon treaty means an EU army in 2020" bollocks that was going round last year.

Bikingbear · 12/09/2020 23:21

@FedUpAtHomeTroels

Teaching someone to give an injection takes minutes, many people are shown how to do their own. It doesn't take a nurse. Student nurses have to learn how to do them, healthcare support workers can learn in minutes, and they are the ones locally who take blood for a living.
This!

As long as people are trained to do it, it's not exactly rocket science. Diabetics inject themselves daily, many women who've gone through fertility treatments have injected themselves and I'd take a guess others must do themselves too.

ramblingsonthego · 12/09/2020 23:27

After an illness I had to inject myself twice a day. You get used to it. And if I can do it, anyone can!

Bol87 · 12/09/2020 23:28

You could literally vaccinate yourself. It’s not hard. Thousands of women have to inject themselves after c-sections every year. And not to mention those having IVF, diabetic, post surgery, cancer treatment etc.. it’s not particularly pleasant to inject yourself but a quick stab & it’s done! I have zero concerns about them training up none medics. Except, if you read it, it’s not actually none medics. It’s highly qualified NHS staff. And pharmacists who already give thousands of flu jabs each year.

Stop believing everything you read on Facebook to be gospel & bad. Read it yourself & do some research.

Aposterhasnoname · 12/09/2020 23:34

Ummm, my 75 year old mother has been taught to give my diabetic father injections. My DDs partner gave her daily injections in her stomach during her pregnancy due to her high risk of blood clots. It’s hardly rocket science.

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