Did you know about this back door vaccine consultation?

[tinkywinkyshandbag]

Doing the rounds on social media. I've responded. Whichever side of the vaccine debate you sit on this is important.

After 18th Sept, The Government are going to say they consulted the public and because there were no objections, we all want and consent to the rollout of unlicensed #vaccines, and that we are happy for non-medical staff to administer them and happy to accept we will not have the ability to ask for compensation if we face damage to our health.

They are going to say, you agreed to it (because no one saw this #Consultation request to share their opinion of course), this request is not being seen by many and has not been promoted widely enough.

Please don’t fall into apathy and then complain when it’s too late.

NB: click on the photo and then look for the blue ‘respond on line’, click on the words to go to the right place to share your views on each aspect of the potentially harmful new law they want to pass.

Please reshare this and make sure you contribute!

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu

It’s not back door . It’s all over SM

Some ill informed people are spreading it saying “ prevent compulsory vaccination”.

Despite the fact it never mentions that at all.

It’s like the viral post about the government making children take lunches in plastic bags ( disposable does not equate to plastic ) it does my head in .

I've just read something about this on Facebook and it's taking all my willpower not to reply. Sounds like they are trying to speed things up by starting to administer the vaccine as soon as all the testing is complete and successful but before the license is granted.

Please correct me if I'm incorrect but does this mean they are just skipping the paperwork part ? A license will be applied for but they will start administering it before it's granted?
In normal times, I wouldn't be happy about this but surely it makes sense in this case as long as the testing stage has been completed and the vaccine has been found to be safe and effective.

I'm happy to be corrected.

@Unsure33

It’s not back door . It’s all over SM

Some ill informed people are spreading it saying “ prevent compulsory vaccination”.

Despite the fact it never mentions that at all.

It’s like the viral post about the government making children take lunches in plastic bags ( disposable does not equate to plastic ) it does my head in .

Yup. The government didn't even say anything about disposable packaging - the whole thing was a hysterical lie (like much of social media nowadays). I am so sick of (a) people posting lies and (b) people thoughtlessly sharing them without even considering to check whether or not they're true.

The government's advice to schools mentions lunch boxes just once - in the list of essential items that should be allowed to be brought in to school:

"It is still recommended that pupils limit the amount of equipment they bring into school each day, to essentials such as lunch boxes, hats, coats, books, stationery and mobile phones. Bags are allowed."

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools

So don’t have the vaccine then. They are only ordering enough to start with for half the population anyway

I suggest you also read the consultation documents yourself and make your own mind up than listen to the hysteria on Facebook

DIY vaccines of srlf administration is not appropriate. There is a risk of a reaction from vaccines. If you had a secere reaction you would want a trained health care professional nearby.

Doctors (no offence) tend to have the worse injection technique. I'd be happy for a nurse or phlebotomist.

• severe reaction

I'm far more scared of an unlicenced vaccine with liability removed than I am of the coronavirus. I don't agree with these rushed vaccines. I think it could have far worse long term effects, particularly if it affects the spinal cord and could lead to something like paralysis for an unknown amount of people.

I am concerned about rapidly licensed products. The administration is less of a worry, I guess.

I'm mostly sad we seem to be having to do things with a couple of yogurt pots and some duct tape, our whole public health system has been dismantled just ahead of us needing it more than ever before.

@Torvean32

DIY vaccines of srlf administration is not appropriate. There is a risk of a reaction from vaccines. If you had a secere reaction you would want a trained health care professional nearby.

Doctors (no offence) tend to have the worse injection technique. I'd be happy for a nurse or phlebotomist.

The 2 people who I know who had severe reactions to vaccines had them at home after they were vaccinated. (They had known immune system issues.) So it actually doesn't matter which trained healthcare practitioner gives a vaccine. What matters is that people can get themselves to A&E asap.

I'm actually more worried about the trials where people have to book times to go to A&E as some people won't understand that if you have what you think is a medical emergency you shouldn't phone 111 or anyone else but get yourself straight to A&E.

@RepeatSwan

I am concerned about rapidly licensed products. The administration is less of a worry, I guess.

I'm mostly sad we seem to be having to do things with a couple of yogurt pots and some duct tape, our whole public health system has been dismantled just ahead of us needing it more than ever before.

Lots of the medications that I know people have had reactions to e.g. contraceptive pill aren't rapidly licensed but it has taken more people particularly women of childbearing age to actually take them in real life before their full side effects were known.

With the vaccine trials they actually include women of child bearing age as some of the trial participants.

All of the social media campaigns will be pointless as they are not the point of the consultation. When reviewing it, they’ll separate them out, read the credible ones from the organisations they wanted to speak to and then add something like we also got 7,000 responses as the result of a social media campaign that we’re irrelevant to the aims of the consultation and they have been excluded.

Frankly I’d give it to myself if it meant getting back on with life a little more ‘normally’.

Vets, nursing students, first aiders, anyone with enough of a brain to listen and take in a ten minute training resource would do.

I’d only be concerned about safety is scientists, doctors, etc were up in arms. They aren’t.

Many doctors receptionists are fully trained to take bloods and are often better at it than the GP's.
Surely once a person is trained to do something then that makes them perfectly capable of doing it whether it be taking bloods, doing injections or doing brain surgery. At the end of the day everyone has to be trained to do their job so why would you not want somebody that was trained specifically to the procedure.

Because a phobia really isn't rational. Also because of the attitude of some receptionists.

To those saying it's not rocket science to inject yourself you crack on, there'll be more healthcare professionals for the rest of us! There is also no way on earth I would inject myself, DH has been told that if I need to be injected for any reason he will have to do it as I I couldn't pick the needle up, let alone use it!

Back door consultation?

Do you, perchance, mean this one? The BBC reported on it at the end of August.

Hardly cloak and dagger!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53946412

Many doctors receptionists are fully trained to take bloods and are often better at it than the GP's.
I've never previously heard of this. I wouldn't let a receptionist take my blood. They are just administrators. It does beg the question of why trained practice nurses usually do it if basic administrators can be easily trained to do so.

I wouldn't let just anyone give me a vaccination. I had come round to the idea of being vaccinated in order to help protect others but I am not going to have an unlicenced vaccine administered by an administrator.

Thanks for sharing this OP. Its the first I heard of this.

There are lots of retired doctors and nurses who would happily do this
No need for vets / unlicensed people
Nobody has contacted us and there doesn’t seem to be a way to volunteer
It’s an easy solution and NHS England have a big list they can call on - if they want to

I don’t know why everyone is focussing in the actual immunisation by someone trained to deliver it.

I’ve read the consultation document and the bit I’m trying to understand better is that it will be given in mass vaccination program without being licensed.

I understand the need to speed things up wherever possible and I’m totally comfortable with the overlapping phI-III trials. I also understand that governments are taking the risks and mass manufacturing already.

Approval by a regulatory authority l, like the FDA in America or the EMA in Europe is standard practice for all drugs and devices.

Here, the U.K. authority (MHRA) will be able to give the go ahead without formally licensing the drug.

So what step is missing? What is not being done that would normally be done in the assessment for licensing?

They say the MHRA still need to be satisfied on safety and efficacy, but that’s exactly what the approval process does, so us this “licensing lite” ???

Can anyone more in the know explain?

@Lockupyourbiscuits

There are lots of retired doctors and nurses who would happily do this No need for vets / unlicensed people Nobody has contacted us and there doesn’t seem to be a way to volunteer It’s an easy solution and NHS England have a big list they can call on - if they want to

Considering my cat's vet is actually better than some GPs I've seen I wouldn't have a problem with vets!

I can only assume all the people freaking out about non-HCP administering vaccines aren't diabetic/have never had to give themselves blood-thinking injections after a c section/inject their own IVF meds etc...it's so easy, literally anyone could do it. You don't need to be a doctor or nurse

Hoping you get to exercise your choice PinkSparklyCat 🤞

Believe me, if my knob of a former GP comes out retirement he will not be coming anywhere near me! Apart from him I would allow a recently retired medical professional to do it. Then again, I will be absolutely traumatised no matter who it is! I do find that the vets are often more compassionate than doctors.

On the subject of reactions, I think we all need to bear in mind that there will always be someone who has a reaction. There are several very common, well tested drugs that I cannot take but are perfectly safe for the majority of people.

Proper training is needed with facilities to deal with any rare anaphylactic event so it won’t be possible to self administer

I would have told you I absolutely couldn't have injected myself.
Turns out I actually can and it isn't that hard.
During ivf I was sent away with instructions and lots of needles so injection.
It can't be that difficult or dangerous if they allow standard non medical people to do it.