Can teenage daughter have friends around if younger children in bed?

[Janus]

We are a larger family, we have 4 children. One is at uni (sort of, to and fro) so sometimes there’s 5 of us
With the new rule next week I’m wondering If the younger 2 are up in bed could teenage daughter have a few friends around?? So 2 adults in the lounge, daughter and say 3 friends in kitchen, totals 6 with 2 in bed upstairs. Have downstairs loo so won’t need to go upstairs. What do you think?

I understand.

The rules of 6 are because of transmission. So if 2 are in a bedroom then it's still not more than 6 sharing a space.

And in a pub 6 can be together 2m away from another 6.

I think using the summer house would be a good idea.

It's a separate building. And as long as they came in to use loo 1 at a time with own towels (or use kitchen roll!) and wipes and spray for touch surfaces you still don't have more than 6 in a house.

Yes, it may be playing fast and loose with the rules but it's not more than 6 in a household!

It's so hard!

My ds is 16 and his swim club has returned as well as college and it's having the swimming that's good for his MH.

These are the exceptions:

There will be exceptions where groups can be larger than 6 people, including:

where everyone lives together or is in the same support bubble, or to continue existing arrangements where children do not live in the same household as both their parents
for work, and voluntary or charitable services
for education, training, registered childcare, or providers offering before or after-school clubs for children
fulfilling legal obligations such as attending court or jury service
providing emergency assistance, or providing support to a vulnerable person
for you or someone else to avoid illness, injury or harm
participate in children’s playgroups
wedding and civil partnership ceremonies and receptions, or for other religious life-cycle ceremonies - where up to 30 people will be able to attend
funerals - where up to 30 people will be able to attend
organised indoor and outdoor sports, physical activity and exercise classes (see the list of recreational team sports, outdoor sport and exercise allowed under the gyms and leisure centre guidance
youth groups or activities
elite sporting competition or training
protests and political activities organised in compliance with COVID-19 secure guidance and subject to strict risk assessments

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing

Nothing at all there about people in bedrooms not counting.

Based on the current rule, I’d say it’s fine - the summer house is a good idea. The toilet thing is a tough one - going in to the house one at a time to use the toilet isn’t against the rules either, is it?

@Janus

I don’t think they’ve said that those 6 have to social distance have they? (Again, genuine question, maybe they have??). Most of her friends are at a college together and get the local bus sitting next to each other!

This is my point - I think the 6 DO still have to SD, as that rule was never dropped was it? SD with anyone outside your household/support bubble??

It specifically says ‘socialise with 6’

Not sure your two in bed will be socialising

@Janus

I don’t think they’ve said that those 6 have to social distance have they? (Again, genuine question, maybe they have??). Most of her friends are at a college together and get the local bus sitting next to each other!

The SD hasn’t been dropped, it’s just more limited numbers. You are still meant to SD from anyone not in your household or single person support bubble.

@grrretel I believe it was Ben Kentish on the A and Q segment. I will try and see if it it's on podcast

@Janus

I don’t think they’ve said that those 6 have to social distance have they? (Again, genuine question, maybe they have??). Most of her friends are at a college together and get the local bus sitting next to each other!

To reduce the risk of catching or spreading coronavirus, try to keep at least 2 metres away from people you do not live with. Social distancing is essential to stop the spread of the virus, as it is more likely to spread when people are close together. An infected person can pass on the virus even if they do not have any symptoms, through talking, breathing, coughing or sneezing.

When with people you do not live with, you should also avoid: physical contact; being close and face-to-face; and shouting or singing close to them. You should also avoid crowded areas with lots of people; and touching things that other people have touched.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing

I wouldn’t count the 2 asleep as they are not meeting socially.

Crikey! How do you social distance at a pub then, they aren’t 2 metres apart?? I admit I’ve been closer to my friends when meeting for a cuppa but we haven’t given eachother a kiss and hug. How did I miss this?

They will still have to socially distance. We are supposed to socially distance from anyone not in our household, currently. These new rules are tighter, not looser, so i would be very very surprised if they drop social distancing within a 6.

How have we been allowed to meet in a pub or restaurant with friends then? We cannot social distance in that setting. I honestly don’t understand ??

Social distancing never went away but I fear a lot of people thought that it had done and began meeting up with their friends in bars and restaurants without maintaining any physical distance. The information above is clear on what you can do (in England).

If you listen from here the similar question is asked.

@Janus

I don’t think they’ve said that those 6 have to social distance have they? (Again, genuine question, maybe they have??). Most of her friends are at a college together and get the local bus sitting next to each other!

Always social distance and the recommendation of 2 metres hasn’t changed. It’s only 1 metre (plus) in a situation you cannot avoid.

@Janus

How have we been allowed to meet in a pub or restaurant with friends then? We cannot social distance in that setting. I honestly don’t understand ??

People didn’t is the answer. However, you would be expected to stay 2m from anyone not in your household. Problem with that is that you then shout and that’s riskier with covid than talking.

I’m really surprised at the answers to this.

The way I’ve interpreted the guidelines, absolutely you can, yes.

It’s no more than 6 socialising. If the others are in bed, they’re not socialising. In any way. So why not?

This rule already is so unfair on big families. We have 3 small children and it wouldn’t occur to me that I couldn’t have a couple of friends over in the evening once they’ve gone to bed.

So basically a rule that was supposed to be simple still isn't and brings up a whole load of scenaroios which may get around it.
But the ruling itself i guess is more to get around proper gatherings not weather a 7th person/ child is asleep in a bedroom.

@donnadenise

These are the exceptions:

There will be exceptions where groups can be larger than 6 people, including:

where everyone lives together or is in the same support bubble, or to continue existing arrangements where children do not live in the same household as both their parents
for work, and voluntary or charitable services
for education, training, registered childcare, or providers offering before or after-school clubs for children
fulfilling legal obligations such as attending court or jury service
providing emergency assistance, or providing support to a vulnerable person
for you or someone else to avoid illness, injury or harm
participate in children’s playgroups
wedding and civil partnership ceremonies and receptions, or for other religious life-cycle ceremonies - where up to 30 people will be able to attend
funerals - where up to 30 people will be able to attend
organised indoor and outdoor sports, physical activity and exercise classes (see the list of recreational team sports, outdoor sport and exercise allowed under the gyms and leisure centre guidance
youth groups or activities
elite sporting competition or training
protests and political activities organised in compliance with COVID-19 secure guidance and subject to strict risk assessments

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing

Nothing at all there about people in bedrooms not counting.

That's what the guidance says, based on a fucking law that doesn't exist yet. We've never yet had guidance that matched the law, so who knows what the reality will be come Monday.

Yes. It’s to do with the group size who are socialising together not how many people are in the building. Clearly if someone is in bed and not having any contact with the group they do not count as one of the group. Similar to how you don’t have to include all the customers and staff in a pub or restaurant in your group size.

I was closer to two complete strangers in Costa last week.

@Janus

It would seem you're far from alone in not realising SD still applied given the pubs & restaurants opening and Eat Out to Help Out!!!

The messaging has been absolutely crap.

Anyway the available guidance says

you must not meet with people from other households socially in groups of more than 6

The younger ones IN BED will not be 'meeting' the teenagers.

The 'risk' of them using the downstairs toilet is exactly the same as it would be if the younger two were out of the house.

Clean the loo, taps, switches etc before they arrive. Leave plenty of paper towel, spray cleaner etc in the loo. Clean it after they leave & preferably use the upstairs on while they're there.

Depending on what you're doing/layout if your house etc I'd go up to my room and let them spread out downstairs. See what DD wants to do. But no need to chuck them into a much smaller summer house with no social distancing.

@LivingOnAPear

Yes. It’s to do with the group size who are socialising together not how many people are in the building. Clearly if someone is in bed and not having any contact with the group they do not count as one of the group. Similar to how you don’t have to include all the customers and staff in a pub or restaurant in your group size.

It's not clear though is it 50% of people on this thread think 6 no exeption in the house the other 50% think like you. so in reality everyone will do different things, interpret the rules differently.

If the rule is "social gathering" rather than x people in the house I'm now good as a house of six to go to bed at let my kids bring mates round for a downstaires sleepover?

Because people haven't stuck to the rules I live in an area where I can't meet anyone inside or out - my kids can't meet a friend, go for a walk ...

It's worth being sensible to avoid this

Saying that it sounds like what you're suggesting is sensible - outside would be better than inside though, and of course socially distanced