Supermarket refuses service without mask

[torn2020]

The supermarket in my small town has taken the decision to refuse entry to anyone without a mask, even if they're exempt/carrying a card/wearing a lanyard etc. Apparently the exemption cards "were being abused".

Judging from comments on the local Facebook group, there's overwhelming support for this.

I'm horrified/disgusted at the overt discrimination and lack of empathy. Would say I'll boycott but actually have no choice since I'm unable to wear a mask (due to PTSD from being choked and strangled as a child, for those who like to jump in and say I should just put up with it for a 5 min shop). Apparently mask exempt people "don't have the right to just go wherever they want".

AIBU at despairing at humanity just a little bit more today?

This is exactly why our village butchers have returned to telephone orders and a closed door policy. You phone your order, then go and knock on the door and they bring your order to you and hand it through the gap.

That's what they did for the first three months of lockdown, but they re-opened in July with their own "masks only" policy (continuing to offer phone orders as well). They've had so many people arguing the toss about masks, they've closed the doors again as it was too much hassle for them. (Owner is extremely clinically vulnerable so doesn't want people in his tiny shop without masks).

So, well done, the mask deniers have meant that everyone suffers with the shop being closed to walk ins again.

@WellRiddleMeThis

People can suggest visors *@PennyDreadfuI* just because some randomer doesn’t like the fact an alternative can be offered doesn’t mean people should not suggest it.... someone may find it useful

The problem with visors is they do nothing.

The problem is this means nothing anymore, because anyone can just get one off the internet and anti-maskers are being quite vocal about getting them to bypass the rules. Once again a few arseholes ruin it for people with genuine need

It doesn't matter. Supermarkets can't question them. The law says if you have a lanyard or an exemption (and even if you don't) you don't have to wear a mask. As I said further up, if shops don't like this, lobby the government to change the law. Right at the outset of all this I said people should be able to get certificates form their GP, which would carry more weight.

Retailers need to train their staff properly (not just on this but also things like the age restricted items and data protection, where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing).

"Where's the logic that the person with the mask is far more likely to have it?"

The more social contacts someone has the more likely they are to get it and so transmit it. For each person on the train you don't know how risky they are so the person with the mask on could be more risky than the person without.

"I don't think it so much about people who can't physically wear a mask (though I hope they can if in ICU and need a ventilator)"

Why the fuck do people say this? My son can't wear a mask. If he needed any hospital treatment it would be a nightmare but he can't remove his profound disability and only a cunt would think it is ok to mock that.

@WellRiddleMeThis

People can suggest visors *@PennyDreadfuI* just because some randomer doesn’t like the fact an alternative can be offered doesn’t mean people should not suggest it.... someone may find it useful

Those who are exempt because they can't wear face coverings usually can't wear visors either.

Visors have been banned for use alone in Scotland because they're completely ineffective without a mask underneath. They offer absolutely no protection to others and only protect the wearer from large splashes/bodily fluids. The government have said that close fitting cloth face coverings should be worn.

Visors aren't an alternative to masks either in terms of protection or wearability for those who can't tolerate traditional masks. All suggesting them does is perpetuate the idea that those who are exempt aren't trying hard enough.

The problem with visors is they do nothing

It doesn't matter, it's all about the optics. If someone sees someone not wearing a mask they wonder why. If they've got a visor on they'll probably move on, even though they are not massively effective (still better than nothing at all, though).

Those who are exempt because they can't wear face coverings usually can't wear visors either Not true, some people can't cope with their faces being covered - having a clear cover some distance away from your face is a very different thing. Obviously if you can't have the band around your head it's not going to help.

Lovely lovely protective visors

@SavingShoes

It's abuse of power. They are not medically trained and there are so many hidden disabilities. Having to declare your private health conditions to the local shop keeper so you can get a loaf of bread just shows how crazy this world is becoming. Masks don't reduce spread, people use their dirty coughed hands to reapply them regularly and then touch the groceries after gelling hands.

There are many small shops where someone in a wheelchair couldn't go in to buy a loaf of bread because of steps, narrow door, or other physical features of the shop.

The law doesn't make that shop close down, nor force it into expensive rebuilding/alterations. That's what is meant by "reasonable".

What is reasonable for a small shop wouldn't be reasonable for a large supermarket. I.e. an Asda or M&S wouldn't get away with physical features preventing a wheelchair user from buying a loaf of bread!

Only the courts can decide whether a small shop refusing entry without masks but providing alternatives (home delivery etc), is reasonable or not. Consideration of other aspects would be considered such as medical vulnerabilites of the staff, whether staff could be reasonably protected in other ways such as perspex screens, masks, visors, etc.

It's not all about the customer. Staff are protected by law too. And customers not wearing masks in front of a medically vulnerable shop worker/owner pose a risk to the latter, for which the disability discrimination rights protect too.

Disability laws protect the shop workers too! The rights of the customer don't trump the rights of the staff/owner.

@cologne4711

The problem with visors is they do nothing

It doesn't matter, it's all about the optics. If someone sees someone not wearing a mask they wonder why. If they've got a visor on they'll probably move on, even though they are not massively effective (still better than nothing at all, though).

So basically it's a case of being seen to do the right thing, even if the 'right thing' is completely ineffective.

What would be better is if people just moved on anyway and didn't judge (or abuse) others.

@cologne4711

Those who are exempt because they can't wear face coverings usually can't wear visors either Not true, some people can't cope with their faces being covered - having a clear cover some distance away from your face is a very different thing. Obviously if you can't have the band around your head it's not going to help.

That's why I said 'usually' not 'always'.

Those with conditions like TN can't tolerate the band and many with PTSD can't cope with anything so close to their face, for example.

And of course, visors when worn alone are useless anyway.

The argument that all the maskless people in the shops are suffering from hidden disability and trauma is simply untrue. I am a member of my local Eastern European Facebook group and the corona/mask deniers are openly bragging about waltzing into the supermarket without masks under glares from 'sheeple' and some of them claim to have gotten the sunflower lanyard.

*It's not all about the customer. Staff are protected by law too. And customers not wearing masks in front of a medically vulnerable shop worker/owner pose a risk to the latter, for which the disability discrimination rights protect too.

Disability laws protect the shop workers too! The rights of the customer don't trump the rights of the staff/owner*

I've not been into one shop since masks became mandatory where the staff were all wearing masks. In most shops, none of them are.

If vulnerable staff are at risk from customers surely they'll be at a similar (if not greater) risk from maskless colleagues, too?

@TunMahla

The argument that all the maskless people in the shops are suffering from hidden disability and trauma is simply untrue. I am a member of my local Eastern European Facebook group and the corona/mask deniers are openly bragging about waltzing into the supermarket without masks under glares from 'sheeple' and some of them claim to have gotten the sunflower lanyard.

There are definitely going to be pisstakers. But to view all those without masks as pisstakers because of the actions of a minority is unfair and wrong.

@PennyDreadfuI

*It's not all about the customer. Staff are protected by law too. And customers not wearing masks in front of a medically vulnerable shop worker/owner pose a risk to the latter, for which the disability discrimination rights protect too.

Disability laws protect the shop workers too! The rights of the customer don't trump the rights of the staff/owner*

I've not been into one shop since masks became mandatory where the staff were all wearing masks. In most shops, none of them are.

If vulnerable staff are at risk from customers surely they'll be at a similar (if not greater) risk from maskless colleagues, too?

In small shops, there is usually only 1 or 2 staff anyway, so they can stay apart. But in our village butcher with the vulnerable owner, his two staff wear masks to protect each other and him. The counter and back room processing areas are too small to stay 2 metres apart all the time, but they do try to stay in their own working areas so are 2 metres apart most of the time. Same with our village bakery. It has a front room (counter area) and back room (food prep area). The staff seldom went into each other's areas anyway, even before covid - they have handover area between the two, (literally a hole in the wall) so to minimise personal contact. The food prep woman never goes into the shop to serve and vice versa.

Wrong or not let’s face it, people are abusing it and everyone knows this

If you have a true hidden disability people are looking at you and judging you.

The argument that all the maskless people in the shops are suffering from hidden disability and trauma is simply untrue

In all the mask threads ive read I don’t think i have ever seen anyone argue that every maskless person is suffering from a hidden disability/trauma

@WellRiddleMeThis

Wrong or not let’s face it, people are abusing it and everyone knows this

If you have a true hidden disability people are looking at you and judging you.

And this is where we're at. People judging the disabled.

And visors are NOT banned in Scotland @PennyDreadfuI

Masks are required and a visor is not a substitute but they are not banned at all!

@WellRiddleMeThis

And visors are NOT banned in Scotland *@PennyDreadfuI*

Masks are required and a visor is not a substitute but they are not banned at all!

You have to wear a mask with a visor in Scotland. Visors alone aren't permitted.

So visors are not banned in Scotland!!

As I SAID, masks are required.....but visors are not banned.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

The argument that all the maskless people in the shops are suffering from hidden disability and trauma is simply untrue

In all the mask threads ive read I don’t think i have ever seen anyone argue that every maskless person is suffering from a hidden disability/trauma

No, I have seen this argument in this very thread. Posters bringing up the high prevalence of young and fit people are told that ALL of them could have a good reason not to wear a mask. The fact that someone even argued that four builders walking into Wickes together without masks could be all suffering from domestic violence and rape is frankly laughable. And of course, it was later clarified by the poster that she overhead the builders 'plotting' to go maskless in the car park.

There's too many abusing the current system. I was on late night train last week and not one person in carriage was wearing one. I got on holiday this year and everyone was wearing a mask ( in plus 30 degrees), I can't believe the number who can't wear them here

totally agree, OP.

I have a DD with SN and society has never been kind to those with disabilities. Only now with Covid it seems disability discrimination appears to be completely acceptable and even the right thing to do in the mind of many. Its awful!

The fact that someone even argued that four builders walking into Wickes together without masks could be all suffering from domestic violence and rape is frankly laughable

@TunMahla I didn't argue that the builders could have been 'suffering from domestic violence and rape'. I asked the poster who mentioned them whether she thought that hidden disabilities and PTSD from DV/rape were real. Although it's quite telling that you think that the idea of people who may have histories of DV/rape - regardless of their sex - is 'laughable'.