Supermarket refuses service without mask

[torn2020]

The supermarket in my small town has taken the decision to refuse entry to anyone without a mask, even if they're exempt/carrying a card/wearing a lanyard etc. Apparently the exemption cards "were being abused".

Judging from comments on the local Facebook group, there's overwhelming support for this.

I'm horrified/disgusted at the overt discrimination and lack of empathy. Would say I'll boycott but actually have no choice since I'm unable to wear a mask (due to PTSD from being choked and strangled as a child, for those who like to jump in and say I should just put up with it for a 5 min shop). Apparently mask exempt people "don't have the right to just go wherever they want".

AIBU at despairing at humanity just a little bit more today?

Agree with pp this is illegal. Shame on you Budgens. I would be complaining to the manager of the shop and everyone higher I could find contact details for.

*@PennyDreadfuI I think it is your use of the phrase

Oh lord, not this again.

that comes across as rude not the rest of the reply - it sounds dismissive of the question

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

That sounds illegal.

This, surely?

Sadly Disabled people are refused access everyday to things everyone else takes for granted. Though it is good to hear people are bothered by this.

I'd encourage anyone who is exempt and comes across situations like this to complain, and seek legal advice if necessary. I'm a solicitor and have no doubt the professions will stand ready to assist.

@doublehelix

Free click and collect seems a reasonable adjustment.

Each person not wearing a mask is putting other people at risk and therefore non-masked people's rights, even with good reasons, go against the rights of other people with disabilities or conditions who at higher risk of COVID. It's not possible to suit both groups. One group has to stay away. Who decides?

Click and collect is no good if you've run out of milk and need to pop to the shop.

The shop are making up their own rules and denying entry to disabled people. Do you not find that worrying?

Illegal. I'd take photos of it and send it to your MP.

It's not possible to suit both groups. One group has to stay away. Who decides?
I disagree first of all the whole mask wearing is debatable anyway but I will of course follow I'll do anything.
My ds has hardly been anywhere and I avoid the shops with him but you actually expect people to stay home ? He's already missed school / clubs / social occasions days out etc so now basically you think that they should never leave the house .
Also it's like lockdown as long as the majority are wearing masks , if 95% are wearing masks it's better than nobody .
This getting annoyed at the mask wearing is getting ridiculous.

That is fucking horrifying. Feel for you OP

You could do what loads of other people are doing and just have the mask under your chin. That way it looks like you are wearing one but have just pulled it down for a second.

Depending on my mood sometimes i wear one sometimes i dont. They make me feel sick (im pregnant), they really itch my face & they worsen my asthma. Il put it on to go in the shop sometimes but then just pull it down as i walk round the aisles.

Im prepared to be flamed for this.

Most people aren't wearing them properly anyway so are probably putting people at risk regardless. I have one in my car and one in my handbag. I use a fresh one if I remember to pick one up. If not, I'll use those. That's less safe than not wearing one but I'll wear one for appearances sake.

Upthread, someone mentioned a passenger being thrown off a plane and everyone cheering. I believe he was thrown off for berating the flight attendant for not wearing a mask whilst doing the safety announcement.

Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.

Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law

This is taken from the gov.uk site.

Given this is probably going to be a longterm situation, wouldn't it be better to have a better exemption system ?

This is illegal under the Equality Act 2010

Given this is probably going to be a longterm situation, wouldn't it be better to have a better exemption system

Almost certainly, yes. But we don't have one, so it'd be better if people just followed the rules as they are and for shops not to demand proof/lanyards or turn exempt people away.

Given this is probably going to be a longterm situation, wouldn't it be better to have a better exemption system
Don't go having any common sense now , but the government probably think that could be costly and time consuming.
And I suspect that they don't expect it's going to be 100% of people wearing a mask so if that's fine for the government it should be find for shop staff too .

There are many people who are exempt from wearing a mask who do not have disabilities. Rape victims, domestic violence victims. It is absolutely no one else's business and no one should have to justify themselves to a shop worker! I honestly can't believe the people who think they should be banned from shops and shop online instead! My son is exempt (he is autistic) but he's too anxious about being questioned to not wear a mask. He wouldn't wear a sunflower lanyard as it would draw attention to him and he hates attention.

how would click and collect even work? wouldn't you still need to enter the store to collect the shopping?

I've not got my point across very well. I am all for accessibility. A shop preventing access to those with disabilities for reasons of convenience/cost etc would be totally out of order. The amount of lobbying and time it has taken to get even as far as we are now with ramps/lifts on public transport is totally out of order.

This is different. Breathing out moisture droplets that could give people COVID and kill vulnerable people is a hazard not merely inconvenient. Workplaces have to protect their staff and customers from hazards - eg passive smoking, paint fumes and now the virus. Your convenience of access to milk at short notice is I'm afraid outscaled by someone else's need for protection from getting a potentially fatal illness.

Similarly, as an extreme example, if you have a severe vision problem or unstable epilepsy the DVLA restrict your access to driving as other people's right to road safety trumps the individual's right/desire to drive.

If you can't wear a mask you shouldn't be housebound - of course not - but it would be reasonable to avoid crowded indoor environments where should you be positive you could transmit the virus to many people - some with disabilities of their own who also don't want to be housebound due to others spreading virus. The shop should make a reasonable work around though - eg true priority rapid access to click and collect, or meet you outside and take a list of urgent items.

Studies show proper mask use reduces transmission by about 80%.

businesses don't have the staff for personal shopping at the door! and customers would still need to go into store to pay anyway

@doublehelix

I've not got my point across very well. I am all for accessibility. A shop preventing access to those with disabilities for reasons of convenience/cost etc would be totally out of order. The amount of lobbying and time it has taken to get even as far as we are now with ramps/lifts on public transport is totally out of order.

This is different. Breathing out moisture droplets that could give people COVID and kill vulnerable people is a hazard not merely inconvenient. Workplaces have to protect their staff and customers from hazards - eg passive smoking, paint fumes and now the virus. Your convenience of access to milk at short notice is I'm afraid outscaled by someone else's need for protection from getting a potentially fatal illness.

Similarly, as an extreme example, if you have a severe vision problem or unstable epilepsy the DVLA restrict your access to driving as other people's right to road safety trumps the individual's right/desire to drive.

If you can't wear a mask you shouldn't be housebound - of course not - but it would be reasonable to avoid crowded indoor environments where should you be positive you could transmit the virus to many people - some with disabilities of their own who also don't want to be housebound due to others spreading virus. The shop should make a reasonable work around though - eg true priority rapid access to click and collect, or meet you outside and take a list of urgent items.

Studies show proper mask use reduces transmission by about 80%.

Shop staff, in the main, don't wear masks. Are you fine with going into shops where staff are maskless?

And what about public transport? Do you think that those who are exempt should not use that, either? What workaround do you suggest for those who can't wfh and have no other means of transport?

The thing is, whatever you deem reasonable is irrelevant. The guidelines are very clear with regards to exemptions, as are the laws around discrimination.

Are children too young for facemasks banned too?

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

I'd encourage anyone who is exempt and comes across situations like this to complain, and seek legal advice if necessary. I'm a solicitor and have no doubt the professions will stand ready to assist.

Asside from the mask issue and this sort of discrimination what are the legal rights of any shop/ business, can they decide for whatever reason that they will not serve/ do business with someone just because they dont want to.

The supermarket in my small town has taken the decision to refuse entry to anyone without a mask, even if they're exempt/carrying a card/wearing a lanyard etc. Apparently the exemption cards "were being abused

On the one hand this is clearly disability discrimination and it's not for the supermarket to decide if exemption cards etc are being abused. The law is what it is, if they want something stricter they need to lobby the government.

On the other hand, hairdressers insist in masks and nobody complains and if you want your hair cut you've got to go with it. So...it depends if you want your shopping as much as you want a haircut.

can they decide for whatever reason that they will not serve/ do business with someone just because they don't want to

In theory no if they are discriminating against a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. But see my point about hairdressers. No mask = no hair cut.

So...it depends if you want your shopping as much as you want a haircut.

I know you're probably being facetious, but actually no I haven't been for a haircut so I'd say I want my shopping more!

No idea what the policy is around children, I imagine they're allowed in on the basis that (most!) adults can't pretend to be under 12 to abuse that exemption.

Thanks all, I have emailed my local councillor who has asked the shop for a statement on their policy. But to be honest I think reading the responses (on local FB group more than on here) has put me off going regardless of whether I'd be allowed through the door since the majority would consider me a pathetic snowflake . But hopefully others with a thicker skin than me can continue shopping if the manager does a U-turn.

Nightclubs can have dress codes, and shops (without any government rules) can choose to have a no mask, no entry rule if they want. They can choose a no exemptions policy if they want.

The risk of anyone not wearing a mask is the same irrespective of who the person is, and this approach is a proportionate aim of not infecting other customers - so it is not illegal. The fact the governments scheme decided to make an exemption is only relevant to the criminal offence, not the schemes and decisions by businesses or private individuals.