Supermarket refuses service without mask

[torn2020]

The supermarket in my small town has taken the decision to refuse entry to anyone without a mask, even if they're exempt/carrying a card/wearing a lanyard etc. Apparently the exemption cards "were being abused".

Judging from comments on the local Facebook group, there's overwhelming support for this.

I'm horrified/disgusted at the overt discrimination and lack of empathy. Would say I'll boycott but actually have no choice since I'm unable to wear a mask (due to PTSD from being choked and strangled as a child, for those who like to jump in and say I should just put up with it for a 5 min shop). Apparently mask exempt people "don't have the right to just go wherever they want".

AIBU at despairing at humanity just a little bit more today?

The Budgeons in my small town has done the same. I wonder if we're neighbours Children under 11 are exempt.
Sorry haven't read all 18 pages, but can you wear a visor?

PennyDreadfuI DV on its own isn't a reason for exemption - it's whatever the DV has caused, such as PTSD, which will be something that is a medical ground.

PurpleDaisies that's also a medical ground - being deaf is on medical records.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

PennyDreadfuI DV on its own isn't a reason for exemption - it's whatever the DV has caused, such as PTSD, which will be something that is a medical ground.

If the DV is ongoing, and the sufferer hasn't told anybody about their situation much less got treatment for it, it's not in the medical realm and a GP would not be aware of it.

I do think exemption cards would reduce abuse from random strangers, because in areas where nobody/ hardly anyone takes the piss by not wearing a mask when they could, the rare person without a mask is not challenged because they clearly can't wear one.

Where half the population aren't wearing one of course most people are taking the piss and the people who can't wear masks are associated with the piss takers.

I suffered DV for years and never told a soul. I couldn't have worn a mask (be used to put his hands over my mouth to keep me quiet). I didn't tell anyone until I went into a refuge after I finally left him.

That's a long time ago and it isn't the reason for my exemption, but I completely empathise with anyone in that situation.

@mrsbyers

Get yourself a plastic face shield instead

There are conditions, such as the one I have, where it's not possible to even wear one of these without severe and likely excruciating pain.

@MadameBlobby

Posters who think that shops are automatically guilty of discrimination if they exclude people with masks are wrong. We don't know this until there is case law. There are far more nuances to this than most posters think

And if you knew anything about nuances, you’d know that the issue is not so much whether there is discrimination (indirect, discrimination arising) but whether it can be objectively justified/is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim

It is entirely possible that a shop (or anywhere) could be “guilty” of discrimination but still be able to justify it. Equally, they might not.

I covered justifications under the EA in some detail in one of my earlier posts.

Look, I am not arguing that shops can or should exclude non-mask wearers. I am arguing that the Law is currently unclear as to whether this constitutes discrimination against disabled people. Some posters seem unable to understand the difference these two points.

No one on this long thread has so far posted anything that contradicts my view that the Law is unclear. @LangClegsInSpace keeps just posting the same advice about there being legitimate exemptions from wearing masks, which no one is disputing. But that doesn't mean that shops have to let in people without masks. The Law is unclear.

For every person who can't wear a mask, and who feels that shops are discriminating against them, you can be sure that there will be someone else, equally vociferous, who thinks shops are discriminating if they don't enforce masks. Anyone immunosuppressed, for example. Shops also have a duty of care to their employees, who are arguably at risk if masks aren't enforced (NB I am not saying that there is a substantive risk to employees or immunosuppressed customers, only that it may be argued that there is).

Whatever some PPs may think, there is a balance of conflicting rights to be managed here, and an absence of case law to guide us. Bookmark this thread and come back in a year or two's time, and we'll see how many successful discrimination cases there have been against businesses that insist on masks. My prediction is that there will probably have been zero and, that if there have been any successes, it will be because the businesses could not demonstrate a reasonable risk assessment process and/or reasonable adaptions, not because of the principle of excluding non-mask wearers per se.

If the DV is ongoing, and the sufferer hasn't told anybody about their situation much less got treatment for it, it's not in the medical realm and a GP would not be aware of it.

No but a quick assessment such as 'putting mask on triggers immediate panic attack' for example would be plenty...
It's the same with people with sensory issues. They will probably never have mentioned that to a GP if the only thing they have to do is avoid wearing a scarf in winter!
However, havng someone assess the situation (NOT the PIPs way!!!) would go a long way to avoid all scammers.

As far as DV goes then it’s up to the person who suffered it!!! It’s not down to anyone here to say as long as this or that.

Same with menopause

And same with visual impairment.... glasses wearers

If people struggle then they struggle.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow, you are totally right there about the conflict in needs between the two groups as well as the fact the law is unclear atm.

If we are talking not about the law but about the rights of disabled (or not disabled) people who cant wear a mask, as someone who is affected by all the restrictions in other ways, Im getting pissed off.
Restriction in numbers etc... means queues to enter some shops, even now. If you have mobility issues like I have and cant stand that long, thsoe queues basically means I cant shop in certain shops. Including some I need to go to for my dcs (think shopping for school shoes!!).
But I have found a way around it and got organised. Actually EVERYONE is expecting me to get around it and find a way 'becaise this is the way it is and don;t you know we have a pandemic???'
So why is it that people who cant wear mask can't get organised too? The same than me when I cant get a shop. I do online shopping or send a family memeber (usually my partner). It ca be hard work, sometimes quite shitty. But I doubt many peole would be happy to see me go in front of them in queues or at the shopping till

@QuestionMarkNow

If the DV is ongoing, and the sufferer hasn't told anybody about their situation much less got treatment for it, it's not in the medical realm and a GP would not be aware of it.

No but a quick assessment such as 'putting mask on triggers immediate panic attack' for example would be plenty...
It's the same with people with sensory issues. They will probably never have mentioned that to a GP if the only thing they have to do is avoid wearing a scarf in winter!
However, havng someone assess the situation (NOT the PIPs way!!!) would go a long way to avoid all scammers.

People in an ongoing DV situation very often do not tell anyone what they're going through. They may not even be able to access medical help.

Not everyone who is exempt is assessable.

When the supermarket queues were bad here, anyone could go to the staff at the head of the queue and ask if they could go straight in as they found it difficult to stand. I never heard the staff say no, and I never heard people in the queue complain. Then again, I haven't heard of people being abused locally for not wearing masks. Maybe we only have a very low number of self-righteous, selfish, rude, ignorant busybodies per 100,000.

On our school run, a normal state school, I would say a good half of the parents are now wearing lanyards. There were none a week ago, but the head has now decided that masks during pick up and drop of are mandatory, as no one was social distancing at all.

That’s outrageous. The chances that half are exempt is infinitesimal, and to go to the trouble of getting a sunflower lanyard pretend to have a disability just to get out of wearing a mask for a few minutes is disgusting. What is wrong with people. Is your area one of those where mask wearing is poor generally?

@Derbygerbil

On our school run, a normal state school, I would say a good half of the parents are now wearing lanyards. There were none a week ago, but the head has now decided that masks during pick up and drop of are mandatory, as no one was social distancing at all.

That’s outrageous. The chances that half are exempt is infinitesimal, and to go to the trouble of getting a sunflower lanyard pretend to have a disability just to get out of wearing a mask for a few minutes is disgusting. What is wrong with people. Is your area one of those where mask wearing is poor generally?

Perhaps these are the likely next hotspot lockdown areas to avoid. Covidiots only I guess!

Perhaps these are the likely next hotspot lockdown areas to avoid. Covidiots only I guess!

Thanks for lumping in people who may well be genuinely exempt with 'covidiots'. Again.

PennyDreadfuI that's exactly why there needs to be a proper, official, GP issued proof of exemption card! Of course the people with genuine reason why they can't wear a mask will be lumped in with the covidiots where 50% of people are taking the piss and couldn't care less about anyone else, be it immunocompromised people or those who genuinely can't wear masks (or people who are immunocompromised and can't wear masks so doubly reliant on others not acting like selfish arses).

And wtf glasses wearers! That's utterly ridiculous! Glasses wearers can wear masks WellRiddleMeThis ! People make up so many stupid reasons for not wearing masks on MN - it being mildly inconvenient isn't a reason!

Shops can never win. Staff get it in the neck whatever they do. I for one can't wait to get out of retail and hoping that's soon. The abuse shop staff are getting is at a all time high so many staff signed off sick with depression or stress is beyond the scale. Working through the whole of lock down putting our health at risk and still having to smile.

@PennyDreadfuI

Perhaps these are the likely next hotspot lockdown areas to avoid. Covidiots only I guess!

Thanks for lumping in people who may well be genuinely exempt with 'covidiots'. Again.

@PennyDreadfuI

That's the main issue in the UK. People abusing and being criminal making a mockery of the exemption rules. The vulnerable and sick need some sort of resolution as otherwise they will be forever caught up in this mess and wrongly treated suspiciously. We would not need system adjustments if the Covidiots and serial unmasked because they can't be bothered followed the rules of the playground! What we really need (apart from a cure which will never happen) is daily rapid accurate compulsory testing so that we can show people we are clean and healthy and so no danger to others as Covid free. We can then all move on and not require any PPE nor other Covid risk mitigation management measures as much.

This has had to happen because far too many people were saying they couldn’t wear masks when they could, they just didn’t want to.

If that supermarket wants to instigate that policy they are perfectly within their rights to and to be honest everyone and their dog has an excuse why they “can’t” wear a mask so I think it’s a good move.

It’s a shame on the genuine cases but it is what it is.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

PennyDreadfuI that's exactly why there needs to be a proper, official, GP issued proof of exemption card! Of course the people with genuine reason why they can't wear a mask will be lumped in with the covidiots where 50% of people are taking the piss and couldn't care less about anyone else, be it immunocompromised people or those who genuinely can't wear masks (or people who are immunocompromised and can't wear masks so doubly reliant on others not acting like selfish arses).

And wtf glasses wearers! That's utterly ridiculous! Glasses wearers can wear masks WellRiddleMeThis ! People make up so many stupid reasons for not wearing masks on MN - it being mildly inconvenient isn't a reason!

not if they constantly steam up leaving you with a hazard of not being able to see properly,bumping into things and your glasses actually falling off as they slide off across the strings of the mask! 'utterly ridiculous' toy maybe but not so much fun for those working in retail,8 hour shifts

My view is that everyone should follow the guidelines as best they can to prevent the spread of the virus. I am glad I don't think like you Redburnett and make it all about me me me.

@Vivana

Shops can never win. Staff get it in the neck whatever they do. I for one can't wait to get out of retail and hoping that's soon. The abuse shop staff are getting is at a all time high so many staff signed off sick with depression or stress is beyond the scale. Working through the whole of lock down putting our health at risk and still having to smile.

i sympathise!! its hard to get across how difficult its been. people think its the same as normal with a bit of distancing thrown in

its brought out the worst side of shoppers.....they are all so entitled and quick to think things are all back to normal again. customers are obviously fearful, but its come across as aggression, rudeness,arrogance and complete contempt.

service in stores will decline as this drags on due to the amount going off sick with stress and leaving.

@Redburnett

People obsessing about individual traumas that apparently make it 'impossible ' to wear face coverings seem to have lost sight of the bigger picture. Anyone who does not wear a face covering is putting others who may be near them at risk. 'My mask protects you, your mask protects me'. Why should an individual willing to wear a face covering be put at risk by someone who claims they are unable to wear one, but who could be asymptomatic? Those who claim to be so traumatised that they are unable to wear a face covering need to seek counselling or therapy for their phobia. It is absurd to suggest that the rest of the population should be prepared to put themselves at risk of Covid to accommodate this phobia.

Do you try to be such an arse, or does it come naturally?