Supermarket refuses service without mask

[torn2020]

The supermarket in my small town has taken the decision to refuse entry to anyone without a mask, even if they're exempt/carrying a card/wearing a lanyard etc. Apparently the exemption cards "were being abused".

Judging from comments on the local Facebook group, there's overwhelming support for this.

I'm horrified/disgusted at the overt discrimination and lack of empathy. Would say I'll boycott but actually have no choice since I'm unable to wear a mask (due to PTSD from being choked and strangled as a child, for those who like to jump in and say I should just put up with it for a 5 min shop). Apparently mask exempt people "don't have the right to just go wherever they want".

AIBU at despairing at humanity just a little bit more today?

@PennyDreadfuI

The reasonable adjustment for those who cannot wear masks is that they don't have to wear masks.

This cannot be stated often enough.

@Redburnett

Government guidance states: 'Premises where face coverings are required should take reasonable steps to promote compliance with the law.' That is exactly what the shop staff in the OP's post was doing. There are videos online posted by surgeons clearly demonstrating that wearing a mask does not inhibit breathing. Nothing on this thread convinces me that most people who refuse to wear masks have a valid reason for doing so. I wear a mask to protect others and I expect them to reciprocate. I have no sympathy at all for mask refusers, and i have yet to encounter anyone wearing an exempt badge.

No they weren’t. If they were, they would have followed the guidance and permitted the OP to do into the shop, as permitted as she cannot wear a mask and is exempt.

Just as well no one requires to convince you of anything, I’m sure it’s not really the case but your post demonstrates quite low intelligence. “Hindered breathing” is not the only reason why people may be exempt from mask wearing.

And people don’t wear a mask to protect you and in wearing a mask you have no right to expect others to reciprocate. It’s not an individual obligation or duty. It’s a public health measure to reduce transmission overall.

As for the “exempt badge” this is not required.

@PennyDreadfuI whats my exemption? i thought we shouldn't be asked this or be expected to explain?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

The problem for the shops is that there are already government rules and guidance in place permitting exemptions without the disabled person having to provide proof. The shops would have to justify why they have deviated from that. I’ve already explained why offering “click and collect” isn’t a reasonable adjustment.

In your opinion. The courts may disagree. I don't think shops should be insisting on masks btw. I agree with everyone saying it's disproportionate, and I have every sympathy with the OP.

But I don't think that it's at all clear that shops that insist on masks will be found to have discriminated. The Government has said that some people are legitimately exempt from wearing masks, but it doesn't follow that shops have to let those people in. When the policy was announced, Matt Hancock (for what that's worth ) specifically said that businesses could refuse entry to people without masks.

The courts have to apply the law. I’m sure you know this as you’re clearly clued up but the point of a reasonable adjustment is to remove or reduce the disadvantage faced by the disabled person. Offering click and collect does not fulfil that brief as this may not permit the disabled person to access the services provided by the shop. The masks exemption does.

@LouiseNW

“Actually a 'mask exempt' hour might be a good solution”

I wouldn’t work that shift.

Not being funny but why not? There were many more infections in March and no one was wearing masks then.

[quote ChaChaCha2012]@LoveNote What is there to clamp down on? The law is clear that they have no right to ask for proof of disability. Are you advocating disability discrimination?[/quote]
This isn't true. Places have every right to ask to see proof of disability.
the problem is that there isn't any evidence available for people who can't wear masks.
Most disabled people can wear masks without any problems.
Many people who can't wear masks, aren't disabled.

I am very used to proving my disability every time I asked for a reasonable adjustment or concession. Proof is the only way that these services aren't abused.

I get that some shop floor workers would not like to man the unmasked happy hour but surprising how in the real world so many security guards and shop floor workers are maskless or have a liking for masks to warm chins etc. These retail staff may seemingly also suffer from eyesight issues or otherwise blind to their own extra large posters and notices about masks safety rules as if these messages and the unmasked walking in are invisible. Surely they have their fellow unmasked tribe supporters! Seems like the UK is not only European leader in Covid deaths but also possibly home to the only nation on Earth with possibly as many disabled as abled residents? Surely not all people in the UK can not read English signs or misunderstand what imagines with a face and mask mean? Therefore as I initially suggested to be totally inclusive and more equal than equality or absolutely no discrimination - retailers should have a close of daily trading happy hour for exceptional unmasked no social distancing nor hand sanitising hour pre Covid nostalgia shopping experience. No hassle no bullying from Covid smart and health and safety concerned masked brigade. All the unmasked shoppers do not need any documentation as to negative Covid tests results etc as they enter knowing they as shoppers (and retailer) are free of any criminal liability if they spread, catch or die from Covid! Lots of entitlement and all human rights retained and amplified. Fill your boots as if it's pre or post Covid. Vulnerable staff to hibernate or be on other non contact shop floor duties but all those anti masks workers to enjoy their finest hour serving their preferred customer demographic unhindered with no judgement nor hate from others. Everyone is a winner! No polarised masked versus unmasked, Covid smart versus Covidiots and the invincible.

[quote WellRiddleMeThis]@PennyDreadfuI whats my exemption? i thought we shouldn't be asked this or be expected to explain?[/quote]
You said you can wear a mask and have done up until now. If you're now exempt, hopefully you'll have some empathy with those of us who always have been.

Everyone is a winner! No polarised masked versus unmasked, Covid smart versus Covidiots and the invincible

Supposed to wear masks on public transport as well

madameblobby

I was 😊

I took my asthmatic son out of college at the beginning of March because they didn’t require a trip returning from Italy to isolate. My husband has a rare genetic condition that has resulted in chronic kidney failure and he is diabetic (runs in family) so is very likely to suffer severely should he contract it.

I have been wearing a mask for months. (We spent a lot of time in Japan in our younger days and the benefits in normal times were clear).

People did look at me oddly in March, some laughed outright. Pleased not to feel feel quite such a loon now 😁

Actually, not pleased, it’s awful. Hope you know what I mean!

Did you not feel more unsafe in March with no one in masks than you would now given rates were so high then compared to now?

I agree. Good decision. Not enough people wearing masks and the whole thing is a pointless exercise. Should be the same rules as helmet wearing on motorbikes.

Yes. Hope you all stay safe

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

I get that some shop floor workers would not like to man the unmasked happy hour but surprising how in the real world so many security guards and shop floor workers are maskless or have a liking for masks to warm chins etc. These retail staff may seemingly also suffer from eyesight issues or otherwise blind to their own extra large posters and notices about masks safety rules as if these messages and the unmasked walking in are invisible. Surely they have their fellow unmasked tribe supporters! Seems like the UK is not only European leader in Covid deaths but also possibly home to the only nation on Earth with possibly as many disabled as abled residents? Surely not all people in the UK can not read English signs or misunderstand what imagines with a face and mask mean? Therefore as I initially suggested to be totally inclusive and more equal than equality or absolutely no discrimination - retailers should have a close of daily trading happy hour for exceptional unmasked no social distancing nor hand sanitising hour pre Covid nostalgia shopping experience. No hassle no bullying from Covid smart and health and safety concerned masked brigade. All the unmasked shoppers do not need any documentation as to negative Covid tests results etc as they enter knowing they as shoppers (and retailer) are free of any criminal liability if they spread, catch or die from Covid! Lots of entitlement and all human rights retained and amplified. Fill your boots as if it's pre or post Covid. Vulnerable staff to hibernate or be on other non contact shop floor duties but all those anti masks workers to enjoy their finest hour serving their preferred customer demographic unhindered with no judgement nor hate from others. Everyone is a winner! No polarised masked versus unmasked, Covid smart versus Covidiots and the invincible.

People who are exempt are not 'covidiots' or anti mask. And why wouldn't we want to sanitise our hands or practice SD?

What a strange, ignorant, rambling post.

@Viviennemary

I agree. Good decision. Not enough people wearing masks and the whole thing is a pointless exercise. Should be the same rules as helmet wearing on motorbikes.

Even for those who can't wear masks?

Hopefully, those who can’t wear masks will be kept safer by those who can who do.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Everyone is a winner! No polarised masked versus unmasked, Covid smart versus Covidiots and the invincible

Supposed to wear masks on public transport as well

Possibly a special entitlement unmasked carriage or section to segregate the two tribes?

Bit like airline seat pricing model?

That will be fully inclusive non discriminatory non human rights impinging etc.

Both masks and unmasked can have freedom of choice and be equally happy in either section with like minded travellers.

@LoveNote

Yes we can ask if they have a mask. That’s the door Marshall’s job. A surprising amount of people ‘forget’ and run back to their car for their mask. Or have it in their bags and forget

In fact a door Marshall promoting masks is part of health and safety audit

And actually stores do have the right to refuse entry, so do have the ‘power’. Not the road we would ever go down though

Why is 'forget' in inverted commas? I've spent my entire life NOT being accustomed to wearing a face covering every time I go into a shop. I've forgotten a couple of times and it's not out if the realms of possibility that others will too.

Possibly a special entitlement unmasked carriage or section to segregate the two tribes?

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia yes, what a brilliant idea, segregating the disabled from the 'normal' folk!

Christ on a penny farthing.

@PennyDreadfuI

My post was to highlight the issue with Covid believers and non believers as this seem to be the battle ground in the shops despite new higher R rates and localised lockdowns.

We can't have one rule for all so why not a solution different rules to cater for both polarised groups?

Some will inevitably fall in the middle so again for inclusiveness and non discriminatory reasons perhaps a half way house to accommodate that minority demographic?

I am trying to find solutions to work for all and not to judge! Otherwise we have masked versus unmasked. Piss takers can be grouped together etc as not to offend others.

Our current system for criminalisation of masks in retail settings (as common globally) does not seem to work in the UK so innovation is required to resolve this.

[quote ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]@Underhisi

I don't think it so much about people who can't physically wear a mask (though I hope they can if in ICU and need a ventilator) but more those who are not disabled but simply don't care. Those who don't care could also be more careless in other ways and health and safety is not for the careless especially given this second or next community super spreading wave. I suspect careless unmasked are likely more potential asymptomatic super spreaders. Though with no tests who knows?[/quote]
I am so sick of the argument that people who can't wear a mask will have an even worse time if they need ICU and a ventilator.

Are you not aware that there are people who cannot wear a mask because they have PTSD from previous ICU admissions?

Aside from that, don't you think it's a bit nasty to wave people's worst nightmare at them just because they are unable to strap a bit of cloth to their face in order to get a pint of milk or get on the bus?

What do you get out of these posts?

We have a mask system and rules which don't work in the UK. Therefore we need to examine the issues and reasons and address to accommodate to the satisfaction and inclusiveness of all.

If you happen to have medical issues and exempt you have that special right and entitlement. You are therefore not liable to criminal laws. However those who are masked and may also be vulnerable may not necessarily understand nor appreciate this in the middle of an invisible pandemic. You therefore need to cater for this group who also have an entitlement to extra Covid safety.

As of this evening from my shopping experience I could not take a vulnerable shopper (had to return to wait outside) because many were unmasked and some thought it was amusing to pull up their clothing in recognition that they were piss taking. These people are evidently the ones causing a breakdown of the current masks only policy.

On the note about those that forgot their masks - sure by what if you also forgot your method of payment, cards or cash etc?