Supermarket refuses service without mask

[torn2020]

The supermarket in my small town has taken the decision to refuse entry to anyone without a mask, even if they're exempt/carrying a card/wearing a lanyard etc. Apparently the exemption cards "were being abused".

Judging from comments on the local Facebook group, there's overwhelming support for this.

I'm horrified/disgusted at the overt discrimination and lack of empathy. Would say I'll boycott but actually have no choice since I'm unable to wear a mask (due to PTSD from being choked and strangled as a child, for those who like to jump in and say I should just put up with it for a 5 min shop). Apparently mask exempt people "don't have the right to just go wherever they want".

AIBU at despairing at humanity just a little bit more today?

I find it quite disturbing though when the response to 'they wouldn't like an oxygen mask for Covid either' (which you would be conscious for) is met with 'it would be really difficult, but I'd manage' - Whilst I understand that in life threatening situations, people can do extraordinary things to survive, when it's not quite so extreme, it feels like some are willing to do it for their own welfare, but not to protect others

@Babyboomtastic If I had to wear an oxygen mask and was not under any kind of anaesthesia, I would be in sheer, debilitating agony. The pain my condition causes has in the past made me lose consciousness and wet myself. I'm not sure anyone needs to see that while they're pootling around Lidl.

If compulsory use of masks is to continue, I think we need a system of exemption cards, so that those whom a Dr sign off as being exempt (can be done via a phone call consultation) get an official card, which gives no details as to the reason for the exemption, but is proof of it. Then those without the card either don't get entry or get fined

Many who are exempt are not so due to a documented medical condition. Rape and DV survivors, for example. Do you think that people living with PTSD as a result of their experiences should be forced to tell a GP about it when, quite possibly, they've never told anyone before? What if they're currently still in an abusive relationship and are scared to tell anyone? Should they be fined for not doing so? And given that these things cannot be proved, surely all those pisstakers people keep harping on about will just pretend they've suffered trauma too if they're so determined?

@SpearmintPeppermint

Why can’t you just use click and collect? Or ask someone else to go for you? That’s the part I don’t get. Ask a local volunteer group, or order online.

Or go to the shop, as you have a right to do free from harassment and abuse.

Pennydreadful

Have fun arguing about masks and I’ll enjoy my covid free “fantasy island life”
You are “exempt” from masks so you can’t come.

@PennyDreadfuI

Your condition sounds truly awful and I hope you are never in that position.

Re the undocumented reasons/DV/PTSD etc, then I'm sorry but I do think that in order to claim an exemption, someone would have to declare it, if it's an official scheme. And yes, that's stupidly hard and yes that might be too difficult for some people, but when others have been stuck inside their houses for 3 months, we are living in difficult times, when difficult things are asked of us. We could look at ways of making it less tricky - it could be done through a telephone service, which would make it feel more anonymous etc but it wouldnt be perfect.

And yes, those in abusive relationships now might struggle to take advantage of it, but they'd likely struggle to use an exemption anyway, certainly in front of their partner, and if their partner isn't around much when they shop, then they probably could make the phone call (and delete the record from their log obviously). It's not perfect, it's just trying to reach a compromise so that the majority of people are kept safe, and are able to go about their business. It's so tricky :-(

@Marpan

Pennydreadful

Have fun arguing about masks and I’ll enjoy my covid free “fantasy island life”
You are “exempt” from masks so you can’t come.

I thought you just holidayed there, not lived there?

It's ok, I don't want to come, it sounds made up horribly draconian and nasty. I'll stay here, where people with disabilities are treated (mostly) like human beings

"I think they are just right. You don’t need to be exempt.
I was on holiday on an island, there are no special needs badges for a face mask. It is policed. Unless you have 3rd degree burns on your face a mask MUST be worn.
In which case you probably wouldn’t be outside.

Clinically it has been studied and current facial injury is the only reason not to require fabric over nose and mouth.

Your being a brat, and putting others at risk. It’s okay though loads of people are being total brats about it."

How can anyone be this thick.

Haha you bit again.

@Marpan

Haha you bit again.

Are you 12?

😀

PennyDreadful - we can make mask-exemption a reason for getting people to shop for you.

I think that given how things have been in the past, it is a higher priority to let vulnerable people some additional freedom (as they have been locked away, in general, for longer than mask-exempt people). Waiting 1-2 days to get milk/other products is not life-threatening. People who are vulnerable also have jobs which now they would find it hard to do.

Of course, the very small group of people who fall into both categories may be affected more severely.

I find it quite disturbing though when the response to 'they wouldn't like an oxygen mask for Covid either' (which you would be conscious for) is met with 'it would be really difficult, but I'd manage' - Whilst I understand that in life threatening situations, people can do extraordinary things to survive, when it's not quite so extreme, it feels like some are willing to do it for their own welfare, but not to protect others

Stupid comparison. Face masks limit oxygen. Oxygen masks increase oxygen. Most people exempt from masks are exempt for breathing difficulties. The PTSD psychological exemptions are a tiny (but equally valid) minority. Those with nerve disorders cannot wear ANY masks unless sedated with pain medication- so again stupid comparison.

My aunt has COPD. She can’t wear a face mask because her oxygen level would drop too low. But she has worn oxygen masks many many times when she’s been hospitalised due to her COPD.

@Namenic

PennyDreadful - we can make mask-exemption a reason for getting people to shop for you.

I think that given how things have been in the past, it is a higher priority to let vulnerable people some additional freedom (as they have been locked away, in general, for longer than mask-exempt people). Waiting 1-2 days to get milk/other products is not life-threatening. People who are vulnerable also have jobs which now they would find it hard to do.

Of course, the very small group of people who fall into both categories may be affected more severely.

I would bet a million euros that many vulnerable and shielding people are also mask exempt. That sort of negates your whole take turns being shut in a leper house theory.

There is a large overlap between clinically vulnerable and mask exempt.

The public wearing masks is to reduce the spread of the virus. It is not to protect individuals.

But exemption certificates are not practical unless there are medical professionals who are willi to sign them.

"I think that given how things have been in the past, it is a higher priority to let vulnerable people some additional freedom (as they have been locked away, in general, for longer than mask-exempt people"

Shielded people have not been locked away or banned from anywhere but you are advocating banning people who cannot wear masks.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

That sounds illegal.

My thoughts. Our local shopping area has signs up saying you must wear a mask whilst shopping here. It doesn't say no exemptions but I think it implies that because it could say 'other than exempt people'.

Disabled person here, but fine with a mask. I find it absolutely bloody amazing how many retailers can enforce rules about masks (even when they shouldn't) and how many people agree with them doing so when they have no good reason to. They are probably the same people that tell me that there's nothing they can do about the people without a blue badge parking in the disabled bays. Funny how much the "protections" matter when it's them, and not when it is anyone else.

Do they accept customers who are wearing masks full of holes?

@Postbox321

Do they accept customers who are wearing masks full of holes?

Probably.

Retailers should enforce the rules if they are required to protect their staff. I would think that it is unfair for a vulnerable person working in a shop to be put in a position by a high number of people without masks going into the store.

Some stores have limits on numbers. I guess they could have a capacity of masked and unmasked people at one time?

@Sockwomble

There is a large overlap between clinically vulnerable and mask exempt.

The public wearing masks is to reduce the spread of the virus. It is not to protect individuals.

Agree. People don’t get the point of public health measures

@Namenic

Retailers should enforce the rules if they are required to protect their staff. I would think that it is unfair for a vulnerable person working in a shop to be put in a position by a high number of people without masks going into the store.

Some stores have limits on numbers. I guess they could have a capacity of masked and unmasked people at one time?

good point!

so a store could set a limit of how many unmasked shoppers in the store at any one time.....bet the non genuine would soon get fed up of queuing and wear a mask to get in, next problem would be getting them to keep it on whilst in store i suppose

so a store could set a limit of how many unmasked shoppers in the store at any one time.....bet the non genuine would soon get fed up of queuing and wear a mask to get in, next problem would be getting them to keep it on whilst in store i suppose

Right, so no restrictions on people who can't be arsed to wear a mask properly as long as you can make the genuinely exempt suffer for the actions of others. Yes, that sounds completely fair

You know, I don't know why we're all arguing the toss here anyway.

Exemptions exist and the vast majority of shops are respecting them. The bonkers suggestions of people who don't believe that exemptions should exist/that all unmasked are pisstakers/enjoy judging people who are often in some way vulnerable are irrelevant. Shop staff are pretty much always friendly and understanding to those without masks I've found - it's fellow shoppers who cause the problems. Ditto bus drivers/passengers.

If you're vulnerable I understand your frustration - I don't have the answers, but clearly both sets of people (and there's an overlap, as PPs have noted) need to work/shop/care for family/use public transport. I don't know of a solution which takes everyone's needs into account. There possibly isn't one. But neither group's needs trumps the others'.

We have exemptions, put in place by the government. There's no need to argue about whether we should have them or not - we already do.

But exemption certificates are not practical unless there are medical professionals who are willi to sign them

So the government needs to tell GPs to do it, in the same way as they have to provide "fit notes". This should have been done at the outset (along with telling GPs to get back to a greater level of face to face work).

you cannot expect a shop to simply believe someone who claims they are exempt

Yes you can, because at the moment, that is what the law says.

I agree there should be exemption certificates signed by a medical professional but there isn't.