Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

I think what we also need to accept is the U.K. economy is driven by service industry. We can all say shut everything to keep schools open but reality is there won’t be any jobs for school leavers. The whole economy is inter connected. We cannot pigeon hole without understanding the wider implications.

But for those who really do need help, lack of resilience is not a failing.

Just read this and went 'fuck me' out loud.

It's 2020 and there are people out there who think mental health issues involve a 'lack of resilience?' Really? That's pretty shameful to be honest. I'm cringing for the poster who wrote this because it only reflects on you. There are some extraordinarily strong, resilient people out there who suffer with mental health issues and who aren't coping during this pandemic. People who deserve to hold their heads high in terms of what they've managed to survive in their lives and who are still extraordinarily resilient even if they are unwell right now. If you break your leg badly, no one sits and comments on your resilience.

Also this idea that kids of secondary school age should have months of online learning is such a good idea in theory but it would seriously harm many children in reality. Yes absolutely, some would thrive but many wouldn't get any work done at all, many would suffer badly from being isolated or would experience a significant rise in abuse at home, would turn to self-harm, drug use, etc etc. I really could go on. There is a reason why society is not educating children that way at the moment. There is a reason why children have been pushed back into schools.

@FlySheMust

I'm baffled by the selfishness that says the clinically vulnerable should just lock themselves away. How is that right or fair? They have been doing it for months, time they were allowed out and the rest of the population made it easier for them, not harder.

The elderly and vulnerable are just as entitled to a life as anyone else. Sacrifice has to be across the board.

I agree.

Education is important but it can be done by many means not just sat in a school building.

There’s also many not following guidance, refusing to wear masks, no concept of SD, not following quarantine after travel etc so cases will continue to rise.

Everyone should be playing a part and making sacrifices not just the elderly and vulnerable.

But if schools were proven to be spreading the virus, the government wouldn't hesitate to shut them (or make the local authorities do it).
It has been shown that pubs and bars are spreading the infection in younger people, who then spread it in the wider community. And holiday makers returning from, e.g. Zante seem to have spread infection also.
But these areas are allowed to stay open. Mixed message and double standards.

Education is important but it can be done by many means not just sat in a school building.

Not for primary to any comparable standard, no.

As for tests running out, we need people to stop requesting them when they have a runny nose because it "could be covid". It could, but itsmuchmore likely to be a cold. So just stay home for two days, see how you feel and move on if feeling better. Stop wasting tests.

When I had covid my only symptom was a runny nose for 2 days. That was it. I tested positive. If I hadn't been tested I'd have merrily sent my son to nursery, gone shopping, gone to restaurants etc.

There is a reason why children have been pushed back into schools

Economic so parents can work as they need the childcare imo.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

But for those who really do need help, lack of resilience is not a failing.

Just read this and went 'fuck me' out loud.

It's 2020 and there are people out there who think mental health issues involve a 'lack of resilience?' Really? That's pretty shameful to be honest. I'm cringing for the poster who wrote this because it only reflects on you. There are some extraordinarily strong, resilient people out there who suffer with mental health issues and who aren't coping during this pandemic. People who deserve to hold their heads high in terms of what they've managed to survive in their lives and who are still extraordinarily resilient even if they are unwell right now. If you break your leg badly, no one sits and comments on your resilience.

Also this idea that kids of secondary school age should have months of online learning is such a good idea in theory but it would seriously harm many children in reality. Yes absolutely, some would thrive but many wouldn't get any work done at all, many would suffer badly from being isolated or would experience a significant rise in abuse at home, would turn to self-harm, drug use, etc etc. I really could go on. There is a reason why society is not educating children that way at the moment. There is a reason why children have been pushed back into schools.

Not to derail thread, but yes, I agree. Mental health is not a lack of resilience. You would be surprised how many think this and think it is acceptable to voice this opinion. Mental health issues arise despite being resilient and strong and determined.

I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now.

Not necessarily. I understand the panic and fear and yes, they might. Equally there are so many reasons why they might not. I don't think the best way of getting through the next few months is to make snap assumptions at the numbers rising when the situation isn't black and white. We're in a very different situation to March.

-We know how to treat the virus better. That has changed significantly particularly with those who get seriously ill
-People seem to get the virus much more mildly generally thanks to masks/social distancing
-We have lots of capacity in hospitals
-Lots more people will have topped up their Vitamin D over the summer months
-Care homes/hospitals have better access to PPE than in March
-Lessons were learnt from March about people being discharged into care homes without being tested so the spread will be contained
-we have far more testing capacity and although contact tracing isn't perfect, it has worked so far to contain some localised outbreaks
-we know lots of people with the virus right now are much younger and at tiny risk of death

Mental health is not a lack of resilience. You would be surprised how many think this and think it is acceptable to voice this opinion

Agree, especially at the moment. It's disgraceful.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

There is a reason why children have been pushed back into schools

Economic so parents can work as they need the childcare imo.

Children have been going to school since long before it was usual for women to go out to work. They go to school because in general, schools are considered the best place for them to receive an education.

A sense of proportionality would be nice. If its suddenly about preventing every single preventable death, and throwing people's jobs on a bonfire to achieve it, then by that reasoning, given the obesity is the #1 cause of preventable cancer deaths, obese people should be locked up until their bmi is 22 and then followed with a camera to make sure they don't eat a Mars bar? Unreasonable infringement of civil liberties? Yep. And yet you all accept the removal of a huge amount of your rights without a murmur.

Everyone should be playing a part and making sacrifices not just the elderly and vulnerable.

Making sacrifices will lead to more long term problems. Do you really truly believe that this will ‘defeat a virus’, it is delusional no more or less.

Ruin everyone’s lives of all ages for a virus that isn’t going anywhere. Hardly a solution is it?

The best chance we have of keeping schools open as much as, and for as long as possible is for the wider public to be sensible with their interactions with others.
Unfortunately, in many areas, that's just not happening.
I don't think that the government will close schools as a blanket measure; I think (as is already happening) it will be more of a 'whack-a-mole' approach, with particular year groups closing for quarantining as and when.
But, as someone pointed out up-thread, that will lead to huge inequalities across the board for those lucky enough not to have been affected much versus a high-volume area. But then, nothing so far has been "fair" about the impact of this virus.

The partial closures we are seeing already in England are unlikely to have originated from in-school at this point- but in practice that isn't really relevant. If someone (child or adult) brings it on to the premises and tests positive, schools have to act swiftly, before it spreads.

When you live in a red alert area ( as from this morning) and will be returning to working in a red alert area from next month , with your only option a bus service drastically reduced that was packed to start with, you'll have to forgive us if some in the north west are feeling a little anxious right now.

I feel like the government have just left us to it. Absolute circus.

@bringbacksideburns

When you live in a red alert area ( as from this morning) and will be returning to working in a red alert area from next month , with your only option a bus service drastically reduced that was packed to start with, you'll have to forgive us if some in the north west are feeling a little anxious right now.

I feel like the government have just left us to it. Absolute circus.

Of course you are entitled to feel anxious, it’s a shit show. That doesn’t mean our first step should be to close schools again. Why is it a red area? What is driving those infections? This is what the government should be looking at and acting upon.

Not quite... any death with Covid on the death certificate is recorded as Covid, whenever it happened.
The ones taken from the death toll were the extra ones recorded by PHE, in which they went through the data of all deaths that have occurred and cross referenced them with people who have had a positive Covid test at any point, and then subsequently died.

I don't think that's quite true. The ONS records data by cause of death. When the PHE removed them they just used a straight 28 days cut off and removed the ones who died after that. That's why the daily deaths dashboard on the government site contains a warning that the daily death figure won't include people who have died of Covid but more than 28 days after their 1st positive test. They may still be included in the 60 day figure and will be in the ONS deaths data.

As far as I can remember, according to the PHE, 56% of the 5K deaths that were removed from the stats had covid listed on the death cert.

It does seem odd that we now have 3 different sets of data and there is some confusion about who is being counted where.

@Hereinthesticks oh the naivety.

But, as someone pointed out up-thread, that will lead to huge inequalities across the board for those lucky enough not to have been affected much versus a high-volume area. But then, nothing so far has been "fair" about the impact of this virus.

Life isn't fair for everyone. Never has been, never will be. You can't just close all schools and give all pupils a crap education just because that's "fair". It still isn't as some parents will teach their kids, others won't, just as some schools/teachers have been good with remote teaching, others havn't.

What is more important is that those badly affected who want to improve their education should have the ability to do that in the future, either with more options for college, or higher education, or whatever. I'd like to see a return to colleges of further education being more accessible for older/mature students to study GCSE and A levels etc. For a decade or two now, the whole adult education sector has been scaled right back and that needs to be reversed and opened up again so the pupils who've left school with lower than expected exams have the opportunity to study for them at low/minimal cost.

Still blaming the 20 yearolds?As many as 300 people who attended a charity football match in the northeast of England have been asked to self-isolate for two weeks after 28 people who were there tested positive for coronavirus.

The match was held at Burnside Working Men’s Club, in Fencehouses, County Durham on 30 August. The location is close to the border with Wearside, so Durham County Council has been working with counterparts at Sunderland City Council, as well as Public Health England, to manage the response, according to the PA news agency.

Contact tracing will be carried out for anyone deemed to have been close to someone who tested positive at the bank holiday weekend gathering, but anyone else who was at the charity game has been asked to self-isolate until midnight on 13 September.

Gillian Gibson, Sunderland’s director of public health, said:

It’s really important that everyone acts responsibly and follows the public health guidance when outside of the home if we are to keep our community safe

I cant believe this went ahead,although I understand this isnt the only match

@bringbacksideburns

When you live in a red alert area ( as from this morning) and will be returning to working in a red alert area from next month , with your only option a bus service drastically reduced that was packed to start with, you'll have to forgive us if some in the north west are feeling a little anxious right now.

I feel like the government have just left us to it. Absolute circus.

It's not the fault of the school if you're area is "red" so soon after schools opening - or even before they opened. It's the community that have been ignoring social distancing and socialising etc. It's about time "the community" started to take responsibility and started to follow the guidelines. If Covid is out in the community, then it's obvious it's going to be in the schools in that area too. The only way to stop it spreading in schools is for it to be controlled in the community around them.

@Oaktree55 maybe, but I didn't want my tax to fund Wetherspoons' EOTHO and if it has been established that an outbreak is linked to hospitality and travel (as it has in Bolton and Zante), then those areas should be subject to restrictions/closures, not the ultimate endpoint of those infections ending up in schools, which then do have to close.

I’m going to wade into the mental health issue too. Everything is a spectrum at one end will be kids severely affected by missing school eg the ones from abusive families. At the other end will be kids who’ve thrives being at home. The rest sit between the two extremes and for the majority of children (especially those not nearing public exams) a few moths off school won’t do them any harm. I balk a bit at labelling everything as mental health issues. It’s a bit disrespectful to those who do actually have diagnosed mental health issues and trivialises the issue. For the majority of children in the middle of the spectrum they’ll be just fine. Many many children enjoyed the less hectic down time.

@Oaktree55 Yes, I have a DC with a mental health issue and that issue did indeed improve with 6 months at home with little stress. But now that DC is back in school, that mental health issue has resurfaced and no amount of further lockdown or home learning will help that mental health issue. It will only get worse in the long term.
I have every right to express an opinion on child mental health, having supported my DC through months of CAMHS and mental health hell.

@Oaktree55

I’m going to wade into the mental health issue too. Everything is a spectrum at one end will be kids severely affected by missing school eg the ones from abusive families. At the other end will be kids who’ve thrives being at home. The rest sit between the two extremes and for the majority of children (especially those not nearing public exams) a few moths off school won’t do them any harm. I balk a bit at labelling everything as mental health issues. It’s a bit disrespectful to those who do actually have diagnosed mental health issues and trivialises the issue. For the majority of children in the middle of the spectrum they’ll be just fine. Many many children enjoyed the less hectic down time.

Agreed. But they’ve already had ‘a few months’ off. If they close again, how long will that be for? When does the ‘down time’ stop being enjoyable, and start being an issue? Mine were absolutely fine for the first 8 weeks or so, then it started to have an effect. Not mental health issues, but it was a struggle. Another ‘few months’ and I don’t know what the impact would be.