We have reached the limit of what we can open...back to work everybody!

[noblegiraffe]

At the end of July, Chris Whitty said that we had just about reached the limit of what could be opened and that in future if we wanted to keep some things open, we would need to close other things.

There was a lot of debate in the media about closing pubs to open schools.

Other countries, such as Ireland, are impressing on the population the importance of everybody continuing to restrict contacts outside of school so that the virus will not spread out of control despite children's contacts increasing massively. We have simply had the message that schools are safe.

Even more things are re-opening even though cases are rising. Johnson is going to force civil servants back to the office as some kind of example to the rest of us.

It was asserted that for schools to re-open, we would need our world-beating track and trace system to be in place by September. I'm not sure what world-beating technology is capable of, but I'm pretty sure it's capable of more than a poster with a QR code on it when you go bowling.

And the testing system has already fallen over. So many posts about people being directed ludicrous distances away for testing. How will that keep schools and workplaces open over winter if people can't easily test negative to get out of isolation?

What is the plan here? Is there one? What happened to the science? What happened to careful re-opening?

No idea. The communication is non existent now pretty much isn’t it. They seem to be winging it and will just wait and see what happens with schools. I so hope they don’t close them again by October half term. The kids have had so much disruption. I don’t mind what they close as a compromise but the kids need to be a priority now.

You're right about communication being very poor. Where's the leadership?

Definitely need some briefings.

Why does everything have to be 'world beating'? Why can't it just be 'working'?

@ohthegoats

Why does everything have to be 'world beating'? Why can't it just be 'working'?

This is so true!!

I always get really annoyed by that too @ohthegoats. And also the implication.... I mean surely we are all in this together, we’re not trying to beat other countries, we all have the same goal and working together will enable us to reach that faster. Boris seems to live in the competition mindset.

Also, the issue is so many people are saying “well they are in the same bubble at school now” to justify big gatherings outside school which previously they wouldn’t have contemplated.

In Scotland we have a really well-functioning test and protect system which traces something like 90+ of all contacts. Plus we still have guidance in place that says people should still work from home wherever it's possible.

Obviously Boris could learn a thing or two but he won't. Can't. The only thing that's potentially world-beating here is his precise blend of dimness and unfounded arrogance.

What I don't understand is seeing other countries on the news that have things way more open than we have, but not the higher numbers? And after all the packing out of the beaches and protests marches we've had, why aren't we seeing a huge 2nd wave? Some things just don't make sense to me. I feel like I want to have a 1-2-1 conversation with Chris Whitt's and ask him all my questions

The whole situation is a cluster fuck.

I also tried to book a home covid test yesterday only to be told each time that I tried, to try again later because there were none available!

I don't drive either, and my workplace are insisting some of us go back into the office, with very little tolerance for people with symptoms so I have no idea how they'll react if many, like me, need to test and can't get their hands on one. If they'd just let me stay home then I could just isolate without a worry for anything.

But they don't have the facilities available to test every one that needs it, whilst insisting things be open, and contradicting themselves saying we've hit our limit.

What astounded me was a chap interviewed on the radio this morning who said that despite having arrived back from holiday in Spain he was NOT going to self isolate as required. he didn't think it necessary.

Now I think the government has screwed up royally over this whole thing but having said people must isolate then they have to police that. The place where my brother lives (not UK) would have the police checking up most days at random times with escalating fines and imprisonment eventually if someone disregarded isolation rules. But there the government has handed the problem to a medical expert and put their complete trust in her to make good decisions.

my workplace are insisting some of us go back into the office, with very little tolerance for people with symptoms

Do you mean your workplace have said that if you have one of the three Covid symptoms, you are to come in?

I actually think getting people back to work might make things safer.

So far, apart a handful of exceptions, there haven't been outbreaks around workplaces whereas there have been lots of spikes caused by socialising at home, which will only increase as the weather turns and people can't use their gardens so much. Leaving people with less time to socialise might help control things.

I'm not sure that makes sense.

People are getting infected in their homes but if they are not traveling to work and being around colleagues all day, they won't infect too many people in the asymptomatic stage.

Now put that asymptomatic person on a bus then into an office with AC running...

So far, apart a handful of exceptions, there haven't been outbreaks around workplaces

Boris Johnson’s workplace outbreak is a good reason to continue to be cautious.

It’s true that some being encouraged back to work have been on furlough so could conceivably have been socialising during work hours at home, but many will have been working from home so returning to the office will increase their contacts massively.

I don't have the research on why it's happening but all the new lockdowns seem to be blamed on domestic gatherings. Perhaps because people don't tend to get so close to their colleagues and in work places and on public transport most people are still trying with the 1m+, whereas in family homes there's no attempt to keep apart?

You also don't tend to spend such long periods of time in close confines with a group outside of a domestic setting? Maybe.

If people are working from home (which they will have as furlough is finishing at the end of the month), they are not going to socialise more than if they are at work @FinnyStory.

And there has been outbreaks associated with work places (the obvious meat factory come to mind). But seeing that few offices are back to working onsite, it’s also unlikely that we would see outbreaks there.

I wfh throughout but I still had much more social time than when I'm commuting.

@FinnyStory, have you been on the tube/train/bus at rush hour?? It’s impossible to be more than 1M apart!,

Re: civil service being forced back - I don’t think thats necessarily true. I’m CS and we were told this week that they will reconsider us going back into offices again at the end of November. That’s just looking at the risk again and making a decision; no guarantees.

But the trains have masks, people aren't wearing masks in their friends' homes. I don't know why it is, but it does seem to be the case that working is less risky than socialising.

We need to fire up the engines of the economy, and that means no more lounging around at home people! I can't wait to get back into the office tomorrow

Oh op you are so cynical and stupid. We don't need communicating with because everything is running smoothly behind the scenes. All decisions are based on evidence including behavioral science and everyone in government has one eye on the 5-stage alert system which is informing future action relating to lockdown. Have faith.

That’s true, Stealth, I am ashamed.

Our world-beating government that has performed so well up till now undoubtedly has a clear handle on everything and I just don’t understand. Everything appears to be chaotic and nonsensical but that’s only to plebeian eyes.

The sarcasm on this thread is getting very dark.