Is it true Jeremy Hunt wants us back in the office as he's a commercial landlord in Central London?

[ssd]

Is this correct?

Until the day the House of commons is full
Exactly ignore what they say watch what they do, they might say that it's safe but their behaviour tells us they know damn well it isn't safe.
they clearly don't want to put themselves at risk but they expect us to, they see us as disposable prawns in their games

I think the question to ask is 'why are we not acknowledging that retail hospitality and transport are no longer viable

I think you missed out the words “in the short term”.

I would take risk of death over no return to theatres/concerts/travel/socialising with friends and family. What’s the point in protecting all these lives if all we can do is stay home and watch tv?

I would take risk of death over no return to theatres/concerts/travel/socialising with friends and family.

Personally I feel the same about returning to offices full time (i've wfh since March, back in office on a rota basis). But in the sense of why have a 2-3 hour round commute 5 days a week and sit in a packed out office from Monday to Friday if the things I enjoy doing at the weekend are still out of bounds and I can work just as well from home?

I also don't get that there's some sort of Tory plot going on. Britain is well behind much of Europe in the return to the office. About 75% of white collar workers in France and Italy are already back at the office, much higher than in Britain

Britain isn't behind, it's ahead on agile and remote working.

they clearly don't want to put themselves at risk but they expect us to, they see us as disposable prawns in their games

Yes - see also "no deal Brexit".

The thing about co-working hubs is it assumes your colleagues and bosses will be co-working in them with you. Which they won't given their size and the geographical spread of London

It doesn't. That's not the point of them. It give people somewhere to work who don't want to work from home for whatever reason - not enough space/kids/elderly relatives/other distractions. You have company and can network with the other people there who may be from outside your industry and doing very different jobs, but that can be very valuable in itself.

Some are quite expensive but there are others run by local councils or enterprise trusts which are quite reasonable, eg £10 a day (a bargain, given that it would cost me £35 to get to the office on the train).

@puffinkoala outside of London, if someone lives in such cramped quarters that they can’t comfortably work from home, £10 per day plus the cost of transport to that coworking space will be an impossible expense. I work in this sector. Our users are freelancers with at least reasonably high incomes, not displaced office workers who are tired of having to balance their laptop on their knees in their single bedroom.

I live about 5 miles drive from the office, no way would I pay £10 a day for office space, I'd be losing out in a big way!

missed out the words “in the short term”
are you saying that covid is a short term problem?

I think part of the problem is a lot of people haven't done so well - if not badly - when the economy was supposed to be "doing well".

Certainly enough that trying to scare them into commuting "for the economy" isn't really a motivator.

@Heffalooomia

missed out the words “in the short term” are you saying that covid is a short term problem?

I guess it depends on your definition of short term. But I don’t believe we will be living like this in 2 years time. Combination of vaccine (hopefully!) and improved treatment outcomes will mean that we don’t need to.

He'll be just fine if he's a commercial landlord. He'll sell or convert into poor quality but expensive flats. Anyone with a private pension can breathe a sigh of relief (most pensions derive a lot of income from commercial property).

Hunt, like many MPs (of all parties) is on the board of large corporates. He's chums with the CEOs who want to skimp on office space costs - consequences for individuals, society, and the longer-term economy be damned.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

It might not be that MPs own shares in property companies but you can bet your bottom dollar that people with significant property interests in the City are likely to have influence on the Conservative Party.

Yes, precisely.

It's true that exposure to commercial property investments is pretty wide. Most pension funds include them, although I'm not sure the people most forcefully making this point realise how many of the British public don't have a pension fund. But there's no way this is simply about the pensions.

Yes pensions aren't a big issue here. Not least because commercial property will continue to make money. If not from high office rents, from high residential rents when it's converted as cheaply as possible into poor quality housing.

And yes lots of people on low incomes (who can't afford rent and food let alone pensions) opted out of the automatic employee pension enrolment. But a significant proportion of society, including the average Mumsnet demographic, do have some form of private pension. (Whether it will be enough to retire on without state top-up is another issue).

It’s not just Pret, et al that benefit from us all going in to a work place.
It’s the dry cleaners that dry clean people’s suits for offices
It’s the companies paid to maintain office buildings
It’s the consumables used in office buildings
It’s the people who get paid to run public transport- drivers, administration or anyone else working in that sector
It’s the bars that serve office workers their Friday afternoon drinks
It’s the high street clothing retailers that sell us our office attire
It’s the people paid to deliver fuel to the petrol stations
It’s the people paid to walk your dog when you’re not in the house during the day
It’s the on-site cafeteria staff and receptionists paid to welcome people in to the building
Its the lunch time manicurists, masseuses and beauticians
The list could go on. There are a great many jobs that rely on people commuting to a place of work.

I agree, for the environment it would be madness to go back to 5 days a week in an office... but these things cannot just change overnight.
We live in a service economy and whether you like it or not, permanent WFH is going to fuck all that up.

One also wonders about the companies who are announcing permanent WFH and office closures... think of the money they will save on not renting out office spaces nor paying for the overheads... do you think that money will get given back to the staff to heat their homes and use their own electricity to do their jobs - especially over the winter! Of course they won’t.

And there is the long term worry of being able to hire anyone from anywhere in the country... no need to pay ‘city’ salaries anymore.

People need to be careful what they wish for.

I think it's primarily Londoners who need to be careful what they wish for when it comes to firms being able to hire from anywhere in the country. For lots of us that will open up opportunities!

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

I think it's primarily Londoners who need to be careful what they wish for when it comes to firms being able to hire from anywhere in the country. For lots of us that will open up opportunities!

True - and let me say that I am not a Londoner. Live in a small suburb of Birmingham.

Still not great though. Those that have paid to live in the commuter belt and can no longer get a London salary will be hit hard.

Well it's obviously not great for them.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

I think it's primarily Londoners who need to be careful what they wish for when it comes to firms being able to hire from anywhere in the country. For lots of us that will open up opportunities!

I'm guessing you mean non Londoners who moved to London for jobs. For Londoners the exodus, when these people move back home, might open up opportunities - of affording a home.

But anyhow, surely be careful what you wish for applies equally to someone in the shires. Firms that can hire from anywhere in the country can also look outside the country. If there's no geographical constraints there's no reason why not. Yes some niche jobs might need to stay in the UK but plenty others don't. Including many white collar jobs like accountancy, law, and journalism.

In any case, a large proportion of the service sector dying on its arse is not good news for anybody. It’s all precariously balanced. So we may think ‘I’m alright jack - I’ve got my homemade soup for lunch and I’m not paying to commute to work anymore’ but the reality is that everyone will be hit one way or another. Even the ‘white collar’ workers.
Money needs to keep exchanging hands or the economy tanks. And yes, that includes your overpriced Pret sandwich and your morning latte.

So true @Ethelfleda
It's all very interlinked.

We need a balance. Part-time office, part-time home seems sensible.

'Be careful what you wish for' applies to the people who have most to lose from a change to the status quo, which in this example is people who live in London or are close enough to have been able to access the job market there before widespread wfh, who need to continue earning London type salaries and who for whatever reason can't or don't want to move. That does include some people who live in London, came from elsewhere and would like to move back home but need to sell their property for a certain price first.

There are certainly some jobs that could go abroad, and I can see how that's a huge concern for people in them. Equally, there are people in roles that aren't likely to be offshored who don't live anywhere near London, and whose opportunities will widen with more wfh jobs available. Be careful what you wish for simply doesn't apply in the same way to that cohort.

I don't get your argument. It WFH continues why would people who live in London lose out more than anyone else? They'd WFH, like anyone else. They might even gain. They might've been able to access jobs previously - but that's no good if they couldn't access homes.

Because in most sectors, not all obviously, there are many more jobs and often more plum roles concentrated in London. Someone living where they can physically access the London jobs market has access to a disproportionate number of those jobs, when they need to be done physically in the workplace. That's an advantage.

Yes, this could also be a positive thing for some people living in London in the long run, if it were to make homes there more affordable.