Is it true Jeremy Hunt wants us back in the office as he's a commercial landlord in Central London?

[ssd]

Is this correct?

Why do we care so little about the jobs of retail, hospitality and transport workers? The whole Tory commercial interests/Pret meme is getting old. Real everyday people are losing their livelihoods but many people seem not to care or want to justify leaving cities to die by pretending that it only hurts the rich.

Also why do so many struggle to see how interconnected the economy is? Fewer businesses and fewer people paying tax may mean fewer customers for your product or services if you are in the private sector and less revenue to pay employees working in the public sector.

Also why do so many struggle to see how interconnected the economy is?

They don’t have a clue.

Quite apart from the points you raise, many people’s pension funds are heavily exposed to commercial property.

Do they really think a crash here will do the nation any good???

I agree @Nappyvalley15

I think of the pret/chipotle/coffee place near my office and generally they were staffed by people in their 20s working really hard and studying at university too. I'm not rubbing my hands with glee at the thought of them losing their jobs. The people who own these chains will most likely be ok but I'm not sure the workers in the shops will.

But this is part of a wider issue, our economy is too heavily reliant on the service sector.

@byvirtue

Yes he probably does.

Property has historically been seen as a safe reasonably yielding investment. Most adults in the U.K. with a pension whether they realise it or not have an interest in commercial property.

I was going post the very same thing. I doubt there’s a pension fund anywhere that does not have a significant property element in its portfolio. Pension funds run and managed are for everyone not just the mega rich, nearly every working age adult has an ‘interest in property’ from the minimum wage care worker to the CEO of a multinational.

*Why do we care so little about the jobs of retail, hospitality and transport workers? The whole Tory commercial interests/Pret meme is getting old. Real everyday people are losing their livelihoods but many people seem not to care or want to justify leaving cities to die by pretending that it only hurts the rich.

Also why do so many struggle to see how interconnected the economy is? Fewer businesses and fewer people paying tax may mean fewer customers for your product or services if you are in the private sector and less revenue to pay employees working in the public sector.*

This.
Also people lecturing others for being "entitled" because they cant go to a festival. I think most people could live without going to a festival/concert/theatre/football match for one year (as consumers or customers) but completely ignore the thousands of people for whom this is their livelihood. There are so many interconnected things - take a football match, it's not just stadium staff, they'll also be programme printers, mobile catering vans, local cafes and pubs who make the majority of their income on match days, merchandise producers and sellers, coach companies that transport fans, taxi drivers around the stadium etc etc....many of these might also do similar for concerts and festivals.
It's not as easy as just huffing "FGS cant you live without Reading festival for a year" We need these industries to keep going so theres a prospect of having festivals and concerts again!

Whilst I really don’t want the economy to suffer and I don’t want people to lose their jobs. I’m also Aware that we are at a climate tipping point and this is a good opportunity to change it. Other businesses would spring up through new needs and ultimately we are all fucked if we continue down this path We're busy trying to "return to normal". Instead, we should be using this time to consider which bits of "normal" are actually worth returning to.

Haven’t a clue if he does but wouldn’t surprise me.

Positives could come out of the pandemic, people have re-evaluated their work life balance,their finances and see they can do their job at home and be happier and healthier. The big shift out of the city is like the big shift out of towns and villages years ago. They’ve suffered and had to adapt cities should do the same. A reduction in need for office space should be seen as a way to increase housing. Even before Covid in my area loads of office space/buildings empty one complex was turned into affordable housing. If this was mirrored it would allow people onto the property ladder (Strict criteria so no second homes, buy to let etc) and bring more people back into the city a win win situation.

@Nappyvalley15

Why do we care so little about the jobs of retail, hospitality and transport workers? The whole Tory commercial interests/Pret meme is getting old. Real everyday people are losing their livelihoods but many people seem not to care or want to justify leaving cities to die by pretending that it only hurts the rich.

Also why do so many struggle to see how interconnected the economy is? Fewer businesses and fewer people paying tax may mean fewer customers for your product or services if you are in the private sector and less revenue to pay employees working in the public sector.

Yep. There's an attitude of "Well, I never go to Costa or Cafe Nero so who cares if they go bust?"

It's not just the guy pouring your coffee in Costa.

It's the supply chain, it's the cleaners and maintainance workers in office buildings, the newsagents and grocery shops, the receptionists, and transport workers and so many more. And no, it's not an individual's responsibility to keep others in work, and it's possible some of these jobs will be replaced elsewhere. However, if and when (I'm not convinced) a major long-term shift to WFH happens, the economic effect will be massive, and will effect almost everyone to some degree.

I also don't get that there's some sort of Tory plot going on. Britain is well behind much of Europe in the return to the office. About 75% of white collar workers in France and Italy are already back at the office, much higher than in Britain.

*Why do we care so little about the jobs of retail, hospitality and transport workers? The whole Tory commercial interests/Pret meme is getting old. Real everyday people are losing their livelihoods but many people seem not to care or want to justify leaving cities to die by pretending that it only hurts the rich.

Also why do so many struggle to see how interconnected the economy is? Fewer businesses and fewer people paying tax may mean fewer customers for your product or services if you are in the private sector and less revenue to pay employees working in the public sector.*

This, with knobs on. A lot of people are absolutely clueless.

Don’t you work in a supermarket OP?

If you have a pension you probably have an interest in office blocks as well.

Pension funds have some big property investments so don’t think it’s just the wealthy that are impacted.

..and as others have pointed out it’s all the subsidiary jobs impacted.. the cleaners, the security, etc etc if those people end up unemployed they get more benefits, which costs the economy more which will mean tax rises or cuts in other services to support!

I do get how interconnected it all is, with supply chains etc.
However I’m also aware if we continue down this path the planet will be fucked. So surely this is a good opportunity to pause and reset with a happy medium, commuting once a week, being able to live further out so helping house prices.
If we don’t get a grip on climate change the economy will be the least of our worries.

@Nappyvalley15 My big worry is employment rights , these were already raised during Brexit as likely being at risk, now with so many unemployed and a deep recession the Govt will have an excuse to strip these away under a ‘we need to get the country in jobs’ banner and their fervent supporters will back them to the hilt because the lazy feckless unemployed should be working.

Every plus side seems to have a payback elsewhere.
WFH - great for MN style middle classes with a home office and better work life balance ....not so great for new starters, people in house shares balancing a laptop at the end of their bed, or people in smaller houses trying to work at the kitchen table, and not having the social side of work.
Less people using the trains and public transport - great for passengers, for now, getting more space - not great for train companies (I dont normally feel sorry for them) who will likely cut jobs, and eventually cut services and /or put up prices if they are not running at 150% capacity!(passengers and train employees will lose)

• more people wfh might mean increased spending in cafes/shops/sandwich bars in their town....but the closure (and mass unemployment)of many city centre retail and hospitality outlets

Yes I think they are that self-serving. They don't give a toss about Pret and the like, and anyway, they're mainly Eastern Europeans who work there, so given what a Brexity government it is, they really don't care.

All about their, and their cronies' money making.

@Neolara

I think this government are a bunch of complete tossers, but even I don't believe for a second that the only, or even the main reason why ministers are trying to get people back into the office is because they are commercial landlords.

I think the reason they keep banging on about it is pressure from donors who are commercial landlords.

It is important for the economy that offices stay open as well but they're forgetting their own guidance on social distancing and having everyone back at the office the same time as all the schools, colleges and universities open is a recipe for disaster.

WFH - great for MN style middle classes with a home office and better work life balance ....not so great for new starters, people in house shares balancing a laptop at the end of their bed, or people in smaller houses trying to work at the kitchen table, and not having the social side of work

There are loads of co-working hubs that people can use. They were closed during lockdown but there's no need to balance a laptop at the end of your bed now.

The Government is being pressured by some businesses and individuals to get people back in their offices. The shift to wfh have meant lots of businesses have seen a huge downswing in trade. City centre sandwich shops, dry cleaners, restaurants etc have all depended on office workers for almost all of their trade. They go bust that means no rent, empty shops / work spaces

I read somewhere the other day that Boris has scaled back on the back to the office message as they've realised about their own social distancing laws. You can't have everyone back to an open plan office every day and abide by the guidelines. Especially if it's a large office block and the lifts are busy all day.

Until its deemed safe to have live music back or go to a pub and be able to sit where I want, or go to a football match, why should people go back to the office to sit within 2 meters of 7 other people for 8 hours a day (as I would with 2 banks of 4 desks close together).

So surely this is a good opportunity to pause and reset with a happy medium, commuting once a week, being able to live further out so helping house prices.

Is that a 'happy medium' though?

Rents need to be paid 7 days a week. Employers aren't going to maintain city offices to sit half empty most of the time. And businesses won't survive with such a dramatic drop in footfall.

@Crockof

But this is part of a wider issue, our economy is too heavily reliant on the service sector.

Yes, COVID has exposed this.

Surely our economy is constantly evolving.
The sandwich shops appeared through need relatively recently. Before people would go home, take a sandwich or to the pub.
It’s the same as the high streets having a butchers, bakers and greengrocer they have been replaced with tesco.
New businesses come out of new or changed needs.

E.g the hubs talked of above

@puffinkoala come on now. Without giving too much away about myself, I know A LOT about co-working spaces and I have a list in front of me of every single one in Leeds and Manchester. Almost all of them cost upwards of £80 per month for 2-3 days per week with strict 9-5 access. If you want a full time desk and access for working times that start before 9 or finish after 5 (Which is most office jobs these days) it’s at least £180 per month. Most are more. In its current format, co-working is only the answer for relatively well-paid people who freelance or have very flexible jobs.

Also to add- there are a couple more affordable co-working places set up in more rough and ready spaces connected to community centres or non profits, these are even less flexible in terms of time and access (only open three days per week in one case, opening at 10am in another) and were already completely oversubscribed before COVID.