No social distancing in 6th form classrooms/common room

[kitnkaboodle]

I know that there was an earlier thread on this that ran to 1000 messages and shut down, but ...

I'm sitting here with egg on my face, as through the summer I didn't believe my DS (16) telling me that in his (new) Y12, they wouldn't have to distance from the other pupils in sixth form or be spaced out within the classrooms. He said that things would be 'the same as normal', and I honestly thought he was talking rubbish.

He's just home from his first day and, sure enough, the WHOLE sixth form is classed as one bubble and there are no social distancing measures at all between the kids there apart from desks all facing the front. I'm not sure about teachers - will ask later, but I presume they aren't in the bubbles and have to keep apart.

I glanced at the earlier thread title (that was something along the lines of 'the govt are letting the public believe there will be SD in schools') and thought it was all a bit paranoid (without reading it). However, I now genuinely believe that photos of all the 'back to school' stories have been carefully curated to show kids standing/sitting at least a metre apart. I'm one of those who thinks that we just need to 'get on with it' now, regarding schools, but I do feel royally hoodwinked by that. It was very subtle ... (and now I have to apologise to DS for not believing him!!)

That is why children will be sat in strict seating plans with very little movement,

Not necessarily. Our risk assessment does not even mention seating plans (which no-one will think to use for 6th form, a “bubble” of 400), and kids in Y9 to Y13 are moving and mixing every hour.

@HipTightOnions

That is why children will be sat in strict seating plans with very little movement,

Not necessarily. Our risk assessment does not even mention seating plans (which no-one will think to use for 6th form, a “bubble” of 400), and kids in Y9 to Y13 are moving and mixing every hour.

Agreed. Schools can choose to do this but they are not compelled nor expected to. Students could end up sat in different places day by day or even lesson by lesson. This, of course, will make contact tracing far more difficult.

Schools are asked to keep a record of close contacts though, so surely a seating plan is the way forward. And when I said little movement, I meant more when they are in the classroom and seated, I know in Secondary they will moving classrooms, especially in KS4.

We’ve got seating plans but:

-KS4 and 5 obviously in different classes
-KS3 same room all day but are allowed to move seats for break and lunch

HipTightOnions
That is why children will be sat in strict seating plans with very little movement,

Not necessarily. Our risk assessment does not even mention seating plans (which no-one will think to use for 6th form, a “bubble” of 400), and kids in Y9 to Y13 are moving and mixing every hour.
Agreed. Schools can choose to do this but they are not compelled nor expected to. Students could end up sat in different places day by day or even lesson by lesson. This, of course, will make contact tracing far more difficult.

This is one of the reasons teachers are getting a hard time... lots of times a very sensible suggestion (yes not perfect as perfect, covid and schools aren’t compatible) Just gets argued against or said welly hats not possible.

I’m surprised schools don’t have seating plans for behaviour management. Our school policy, pre covid, was that every class has a set seating plan, on that plan you need to have highlighted any SEN, PP, EAL, CAT band, GCSE target etc. It takes time to do but is a great teaching tool, especially for cover supervisors.

Schools are asked to keep a record of close contacts though

Not quite. They “are recommended” to keep a record of who is in each group (easy), and of any close contacts between groups (assumed to be nil) but they aren’t asked to keep a record of close contacts within groups.

@ineedaholidaynow

Schools are asked to keep a record of close contacts though, so surely a seating plan is the way forward. And when I said little movement, I meant more when they are in the classroom and seated, I know in Secondary they will moving classrooms, especially in KS4.

Not exactly. It's recommended but not required and even then it's just who had contact within the bubbles and any noteable contact with someone from outside of the bubble (like an after-school supervisor). All that's required is that schools provide contact details to the health team to enable them to complete track and trace. This could just be giving the health team the full class list, house list or year list if students have been moving around. That's before you even try to account for what the students have been doing at break and lunch.

Personally, I believe we should have set seating plans at this time and that is what I'm running in my classroom but it's not the reality for all classes/schools

I think the plan is for my dd's sixth form to have a year group bubbles. The issue is that there are 1,500 kids in each year group m

I assume in schools without good records bubbles will burst quicker as can’t do contract tracing with the first positive test

OverTheRainbow88

But it’s true that we can’t avoid movement while providing a “broad and balanced curriculum” for KS4 & KS5.

And we do have seating plans for KS3 and KS4 - tend not to have behaviour management problems in 6th form!

And the layout of the (old) school building plus year group zones means one-way systems just aren’t possible.

Ds1 & Ds2 go back today. Unlike OP I was pretty aware and don't feel misled.

@ineedaholidaynow

I assume in schools without good records bubbles will burst quicker as can’t do contract tracing with the first positive test

My room is 8m by 6m with 34 children in it. They sit in that space for 6 hours a day. They mix completely during break, lunch and PE. Even with a seating plan, my bubble will burst at one positive case, especially because said person will have been in the room presymptomatically for several days already so there being only one case is statistically unlikely.

If it helps, my son is in Year 2 (aged 6) and there’s no social distancing in his class either.

My room is 8m by 6m with 34 children in it. They sit in that space for 6 hours a day.

Ive been thinking about this, if people are allowed to mix with lots of children a day they infected person risks infecting more people but at a lower viral load. If the infected person stays in the above classroom all day surley the viral load is much greater thus leading to a worse Corona outcome?

@ineedaholidaynow

Schools are asked to keep a record of close contacts though, so surely a seating plan is the way forward. And when I said little movement, I meant more when they are in the classroom and seated, I know in Secondary they will moving classrooms, especially in KS4.

How can they? A nearby school to me has two bubbles - key stage 3, so years 7,8 & 9 is one bubble and then key stage 4 is the second bubble. How can school record close contact for such big numbers of students? Sure, they might have a record of who sat next to who in each lesson (unless they were moved for some reason in a lesson) but what about at lunchtime?

I’m surprised schools don’t have seating plans for behaviour management. Our school policy, pre covid, was that every class has a set seating plan, on that plan you need to have highlighted any SEN, PP, EAL, CAT band, GCSE target etc. It takes time to do but is a great teaching tool, especially for cover supervisors.

My son is a teacher and I was talking to him about this. They have seating plans at his school but he said the problem is it's the start of a new year so year 7 who are completely new to the school plus year 10 starting their option classes so new classes of students - they also separate sexes in KS3 and for some subjects in ks4 but mix them for option subjects in ks4 - so the seating plans are going to be somewhat fluid until teachers get to know the students in these classes.

That will be where the system falls down, but I assume they will just have to check with the student who they sat with at lunchtime

Although I assume they may end up with many students called ‘I don’t know’ if my DS is anything to go by

I think most parents and young adults know that whilst schools will do what they can to mitigate the risk of infection, it’s very far from risk free.

And knowing that they want to take the risk.

So I’ve sent my foster children back to school knowing they may well bring the virus back to us. The alternatives for them are just higher risk IMVHO.

@mrshoho Back to the OP, I remember posting weeks back that no one could act surprised after teachers and school staff had been spelling out what the reality of schools returning would be, yet here we are.

And no doubt, when numbers do go up in winter, schools and teachers will be blamed for that too

Without doubt @JulesCobb

I completely understand parents burying their heads in the sand about this: so many need to get back to work, and lockdown was pretty dreadful for many children.

My mind just doesn't work like that. I need to KNOW. It gives me (probably the illusion) of control.

I've felt like a right bloody Cassandra since the news started coming out of Italy in Feb. I really, really wanted to be wrong, but I wasn't.

Nothing, however, can excuse the avalanche of pure shit which has been poured over concerned teachers and parents throughout this terrible time. Nothing.

( to @noblegiraffe , all the other teachers (except the nasty ones: you know who you are), & my fellow vulnerable/shielded).

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

I completely understand parents burying their heads in the sand about this: so many need to get back to work, and lockdown was pretty dreadful for many children.

My mind just doesn't work like that. I need to KNOW. It gives me (probably the illusion) of control.

I've felt like a right bloody Cassandra since the news started coming out of Italy in Feb. I really, really wanted to be wrong, but I wasn't.

Nothing, however, can excuse the avalanche of pure shit which has been poured over concerned teachers and parents throughout this terrible time. Nothing.

( to @noblegiraffe , all the other teachers (except the nasty ones: you know who you are), & my fellow vulnerable/shielded).

I completely agree with you.

It's so good to see a post like this supporting the posters on here who have been treated appallingly just because they've been trying to speak the truth.

Another one agreeing with @MilesJuppIsMyBitch

And I have felt like Cassandra too, I sometimes just stfu when people are being jolly but inside I am .

Or maybe some haven’t buried their heads in the sand but have weighed up the risks and benefits and made the informed decision that the benefits outweigh the risks.