Dentist updates anyone?

[Chickenfingers]

My teeth have rotted away from my pregnancy and I've already had a tooth ripped out during this pandemic but now I've got a hole in my tooth right at the front and scratches my tongue whenever I move it.

Does anybody in the industry have any updates, all im seeing when I good it's still on hold.

but Mrsmorton is a dentist.
I'm an NHS dentist, we've seen and treated all our emergencies that buikt up during lockdown but we're still slogging through our cancelled treatments which is scuppering us as we have to leave the surgery for an hour after each one, then go in and clean it before we can see the next person. We might get onto routine check ups by October.
Friends that work privately are more on top of things as they see less patients per day and are not usually booked so far ahead.
In England we have been told 2 days ago there is no change in the fallow time.

I went in July for a check up. My hygienist appointment is in a few weeks. No problems with getting an appointment at all, all back to normal.

But, mine is a private dentist.

@MillyMollyMardy

but Mrsmorton is a dentist. I'm an NHS dentist, we've seen and treated all our emergencies that buikt up during lockdown but we're still slogging through our cancelled treatments which is scuppering us as we have to leave the surgery for an hour after each one, then go in and clean it before we can see the next person. We might get onto routine check ups by October. Friends that work privately are more on top of things as they see less patients per day and are not usually booked so far ahead. In England we have been told 2 days ago there is no change in the fallow time.

If she is a dentist she should be aware of the risk of tooth decay during pregnancy.

I cant believe that you not seeing patients is anything to do with "being booked up". Its to do with the fact that you wont purchase your own PPE, have waited for the NHS to source and provide it and are happy to send patients to dental hubs for extractions on teeth that could be saved. And why? Because you are being paid the same to see 20 percent. Although I think this is now moving to 50 percent? In which case youll probably find extra space for a few more patients a day right?

palacegirl77 can you explain how pregnancy causes tooth decay. It doesn't. Gum disease can be worsened by pregnancy but it is not caused by it.
What PPE has been given to NHS practices? The only PPE given so far has been to emergency hubs. There is now a supply line that could be used in an emergency but this is rationed. All our PPE has been sourced and paid for by the practice and we've spent thousands.
I personally haven't sent any patients to the hubs. They all chose to be treated by antibiotics and wait until we could see them as yes the hubs in our area were doing extractions only.
If they move our quotas to 50% we won't meet it. How do you propose we overcome the fallow time?
Some practices may be gaming but the majority of Dental Teams are acting in the best interests of their patients.

@MillyMollyMardy

palacegirl77 can you explain how pregnancy causes tooth decay. It doesn't. Gum disease can be worsened by pregnancy but it is not caused by it. What PPE has been given to NHS practices? The only PPE given so far has been to emergency hubs. There is now a supply line that could be used in an emergency but this is rationed. All our PPE has been sourced and paid for by the practice and we've spent thousands. I personally haven't sent any patients to the hubs. They all chose to be treated by antibiotics and wait until we could see them as yes the hubs in our area were doing extractions only. If they move our quotas to 50% we won't meet it. How do you propose we overcome the fallow time? Some practices may be gaming but the majority of Dental Teams are acting in the best interests of their patients.

I'd love to know how throwing up several times daily, being unable to fully brush my teeth without throwing up again, and then having no sweet stuff, fruit or sugary drinks as they made me throw up didn't cause my tooth to decay. Teeth that were perfectly fine, but then deteriorated rapidly. But nope, wasn't pregnancy.

Chickenfingers I'm sorry you are having so much trouble with your teeth.
Hyperemesis with frequent and prolonged vomiting especially in multiple pregnancies can lead to erosion but not decay.
Sugar plus oral bacterial then repeated multiple times causes decay. Some women change their diets as grazing seems to help with the nausea, diet changes with breastfeeding and motherhood but it's still the diet leading to decay not being pregnant or a nursing mother.

Our dentist seems to be back to normal, my children had their routine check up this week.
They are also seeing patients who's dentists aren't open yet so it must vary from area to area.

A lot of misconceptions on this thread. I'm a dentist too. Pregnancy itself does not cause tooth decay, gum problems etc... but however, some complications can arise. For instance HG can lead to erosion. Patients generally are ok during pregnancy with good oral hygiene and dietary habits, but absolutely, it is important to attend for check ups so that any problems are dealt with.
Secondly, so many misconceptions re dentists. We are NOT sitting back doing hardly anything and getting paid for it. That's total rubbish.
The simple truth is our doors were closed for three months, the financial help suffered slightly depending where abouts in the country you are, however these are the general facts;
We didn't get any compensation for loss of private earnings
We couldn't furlough staff
We didn't qualify for any grants
We still have had to work, and in some cases were redeployed elsewhere in health service
The NHS funded a percentage of our annual income ( but many, such as those just back from maternity leave or just starting a new job), received nothing.
Most dentists didn't qualify for the self employed help either.
In short, we were probably earning a third of normal income.
Many issues with NHS treatments at present. Our guidelines state urgent care only, so our hands our tied. There is a huge problem re being supplied PPE by the NHS that is ten years out of date, so most practices are paying for this privately instead.
Due to social distancing we are only allowed a certain number of surgeries open, so very much reduced capacity . Private work is permitted, however after each procedure where a drill/scaler is used, we much leave the room for 60 minutes to allow droplets to settle. Then a further 20 minutes is required in order to allow for a deep clean.
In short, it is chaotic, there is a serious shortage of money, in my case, we've needed to go down the redundancy route. It's very stressful and extremely frustrating we aren't allowed to see our NHS patients for routine care.
It's going to be this way for awhile.
We don't get much sympathy on threads like this, but it's a disaster all round at the moment. There is likely to be a major dental health crisis around the corner. Many practices may simply not ever be able to open up again, due to potentially going bankrupt.
Please give us a break, and be patient.

thank you miss, I had no idea about the regs and the 60 min leaving the room after a drill.

any idea when this will be dropped? Most European countries had dentists operating normally even at the height of Covid. Why do we still have these restrictions in place?

No idea Sanjii, although I do believe the fallow time has been reduced slightly in Wales, so other parts of the U.K. may follow soon hopefully.
Ventilation in general will be a key factor. If you have surgeries with open windows you might be in luck. If your surgeries are internal there might be a bit of expensive building work ahead!
The rest of Europe are just getting on with it. It's all a watch and see waiting game just now

My routine check up in September has been cancelled and moved to March next year! Same for my 2 children who won’t have seen a dentist for 18 months by the time they get an appointment.

I’ve had an extraction and a temporary filling during lock down.

I’m also another one that was affected by pregnancy and breastfeeding. My teeth weren’t perfect before; but the deterioration was rapid. I use high fluoride toothpaste, rarely eat sweets or chocolate etc, don’t drink fizzy drinks. And yet I’ve lost 2 molars to decay and have fillings in 4 other teeth. I lost my 4 wisdom teeth years ago as they didn’t form properly and came in sideways.

Not sure why it matters if it's erosion(not decay), poor hygiene or bad diets, it's increased and caused by pregnancy.

Anyway, some positive news I guess. Last time I posted months ago it was just an absolute no to everything. I think I need to see a hygienist too so at least those seem to be booked in.

Pregnancy itself does not cause poor dental health. Complications associated with pregnancy can cause them.

There are plenty of people who don't suffer any problems with their dental health during pregnancy.

At any rate, if you are pregnant, and a year after, you are entitled to free dental care.

I don't know what the answer is. Perhaps contacting your mps with your concerns might be the way forward at present, as NHS dentists have their hands tied

@missatrick

A lot of misconceptions on this thread. I'm a dentist too. Pregnancy itself does not cause tooth decay, gum problems etc... but however, some complications can arise. For instance HG can lead to erosion. Patients generally are ok during pregnancy with good oral hygiene and dietary habits, but absolutely, it is important to attend for check ups so that any problems are dealt with. Secondly, so many misconceptions re dentists. We are NOT sitting back doing hardly anything and getting paid for it. That's total rubbish. The simple truth is our doors were closed for three months, the financial help suffered slightly depending where abouts in the country you are, however these are the general facts; We didn't get any compensation for loss of private earnings We couldn't furlough staff We didn't qualify for any grants We still have had to work, and in some cases were redeployed elsewhere in health service The NHS funded a percentage of our annual income ( but many, such as those just back from maternity leave or just starting a new job), received nothing. Most dentists didn't qualify for the self employed help either. In short, we were probably earning a third of normal income. Many issues with NHS treatments at present. Our guidelines state urgent care only, so our hands our tied. There is a huge problem re being supplied PPE by the NHS that is ten years out of date, so most practices are paying for this privately instead. Due to social distancing we are only allowed a certain number of surgeries open, so very much reduced capacity . Private work is permitted, however after each procedure where a drill/scaler is used, we much leave the room for 60 minutes to allow droplets to settle. Then a further 20 minutes is required in order to allow for a deep clean. In short, it is chaotic, there is a serious shortage of money, in my case, we've needed to go down the redundancy route. It's very stressful and extremely frustrating we aren't allowed to see our NHS patients for routine care. It's going to be this way for awhile. We don't get much sympathy on threads like this, but it's a disaster all round at the moment. There is likely to be a major dental health crisis around the corner. Many practices may simply not ever be able to open up again, due to potentially going bankrupt. Please give us a break, and be patient.

So you werent paid 80 percent of your normal earnings (not capped at 2.5k as the rest of furloughed workers were?) Why couldnt you furlough staff? All admin staff and dental nurses etc were eligible to be furloughed - are you in the UK? Why would you need a grant? You were being paid. You were redeployed if necessary - and again, were still being paid. And even if, as you say, youre earning a third of normal income....its a whopping great income isnt it - as I said, not capped at 2.5k. Sorry cant feel sorry for you for that! Ultimately if private dentists can be open there is no reason NHS ones cant. This all goes to show (as our wonderful Gov will no doubt tell us) we dont need NHS Dentists anymore. Shooting yourselves in the foot.

@MillyMollyMardy

palacegirl77 can you explain how pregnancy causes tooth decay. It doesn't. Gum disease can be worsened by pregnancy but it is not caused by it. What PPE has been given to NHS practices? The only PPE given so far has been to emergency hubs. There is now a supply line that could be used in an emergency but this is rationed. All our PPE has been sourced and paid for by the practice and we've spent thousands. I personally haven't sent any patients to the hubs. They all chose to be treated by antibiotics and wait until we could see them as yes the hubs in our area were doing extractions only. If they move our quotas to 50% we won't meet it. How do you propose we overcome the fallow time? Some practices may be gaming but the majority of Dental Teams are acting in the best interests of their patients.

I though pregnancy hormones affected the bodies response towards plaque? Which causes tooth decay? Im not a dentist so I dont know but im pretty sure thats what my dentist told me when I was pregnant?

Palacegirl77 I've replied to you on another thread, you work in a dental setting. You therefore must already know these answers but you keep repeating the same misinformation.

Fully NHS practices in England were paid an abated percentage of their contracts whilst closed except for remote triage and advice, for this they could not furlough staff including dentists.

Most practices in reality are mixed and the private work subsidises the NHS. There was no private income during the closures just NHS income. The practices like all small businesses still had bills. Most were not eligible for any grants to assist with this.

No one is asking you to feel sorry for us, we are trying to explain what were are doing. Why, were are not yet operating normally and the reasons for this. Most people have no idea about the fallow times.

NHS practices are required to follow advice from the Office of the Chief Dental Officer. It doesn't matter that other Countries do not have such long fallow periods, that they are able to operate more normally.

Until the fallow period is altered I will continue to spend many hours a week unable to enter the surgery because there is an aerosol that might or might not exist that may or may not be suspended in the air and may or may not contain particles of virus that could be transmitted to the next person to enter that room. I d this because I am required to, because I am told it is essential to ensure the safety of my patients, my staff and myself and because none of us can stick our NHS contracted heads above the parapet because the GDC and CQC will deem us to have breached the guidelines.

Palacegirl77,
I'm in Scotland. It's complicated, but been at my practice for less than a year, and only building up an nhs list. I received £800 a month as a covid Grant ( 80% of my earnings). Out of that I need to pay my indemnity, various insurances, my professional fees, my transport costs as still working, my left over lab bills from pre-lockdown. I was left with very little. I have had to put my business loan on hold and defer payments to HMRC.
I have a staff member just back from maternity leave. Didn't work last year so they couldn't give her 80% of the "nothing" she earned as a self employed dentist last year.
I have a staff member who left mid April, and took their covid payment away with them, leaving the practice with a significant shortfall.
I'm a practice owner. We were advised by our accountants that if you take the nhs covid grants you can't furlough staff. And anyway, most of them were working anyway.
Our normal private monthly income ( @£20k per month for the practice) supplements the nhs work we do. This was down to zero. We still had all our normal overheads that were not reduced in any way, such as rent, insurance, leasing of equipment, maintenance costs, rental of telephone services, software admin and licenses, electricity, rates, heating, internet, engineers, HR support, accountants, waste disposal contracts ... the list goes on.
Our covid grants covered paying our dentists a reduced wage, but didn't cover admin staff.
We didn't qualify for business grants as not retail and leisure. This would have been for the practice to help with rent/rates etc.
We normally have approx 140 patients through our door every day, but now it's down to about 20.
It's not going to end any time soon. The covid fixed payments are likely to continue until Feb/March next year. We cannot any longer charge nhs patients, so if they require a denture, the cost of making that comes out of dentist's own pocket.
Like I said it's complicated. But it's an absolute fact that we are running at about 1/5- 1/4 capacity. Redundancy has been our only route so far. It's a total shit show in fact.

Anyway, judge us, make assumptions all you want.

It's not our fault that NHS dentistry can't go ahead at the moment. It was barely breaking even before this, when we didn't have to worry about reduced capacity, fallow and deep cleaning time. There is a massive oral health crisis looming.

And can you clarify what you meant by shooting myself in the foot? I really don't understand. None of this was in my control. I've been following government guidelines.

How are government guidelines adapted for private dentists to be (almost) back to the workload they were previously? I think my issue is where are the dentists coming out and talking about this? The cdo is absolutely hopeless. Why aren't people creating fuss to get her out? I own a dental laboratory, I don't therefore know the ins and outs of every surgery - all I know first hand is that private dentists are back and we are frequently told NHS don't want the work. Ivan only go on what we get told!

The shooting yourself in the foot comment was in relation to the fact that by the virtue of no NHS dentists kicking up a fuss, calling for cdo to go, not questionning the gdcs role etc you are playing into the Tory mantra of privatising dental health - ergo we've managed without NHS for a year - do we need it? Dentists without the means to start their own business could end up on the scrapheap.

My dentist did a phone consultation and then would only physically see me when OTC painkillers stopped helping with the pain. I had to wait a month for an appointment - was supposed to be 2.5 weeks and then they had to move it another 10 days as the dentist was away. Apparently I can get a hygienist visit (they only offer private) in September but they aren't expecting to be able to do NHS check ups until early next year!

I had a crown done over two appointments about a month ago. My (private) dentist practice is tiny so they can only do one AGP a day with the patient at the end of the day’s list. It’s a logistical nightmare for them to try and fit in everyone that was waiting over lockdown. No extra charge for PPE.

I have absolutely no complaints about them shutting until they were able to reopen safely.

As PurpleDaisies says private practices are not anywhere back to normal.
Many have extended their hours and are working shifts, those whose layout permits it are using two surgeries so the dentist and nurse flip between surgeries but that surgery was previously used by a dentist/hygienist or therapist.
As an NHS practice subsidised by private income our accountant would scream if I suggested extending our hours as what would we pay the staff with? We're facing clawback, abatement plus the huge costs of PPE. Currently costing about £40 per patient for treatment, negligible for check ups and will come down as we've opted for reusables mainly.
AS far as the GDC goes they are untouchable, the CDO has been MIA mostly, the BDA have been fighting but as missatrick says there is little sympathy for Dentists.

Palacegirl77, are you in England? There are different CDOs for each region, and the guidelines, not to mention the political arena is slightly different in each area.
The GDC regulate professional standards ie investigate complaints and cases of poor work. They have nothing to do with the current situation.
We are paid via Practitioner services in Scotland, with NHS funding that comes directly from the public purse. The payments are usually supplemented by a 20% patient contribution which has been frozen for now.
The CDO for Scotland will only talk to the nominated Scottish dental practice committee and the BDA, which is mostly England-centric, The Scottish division of BDA have been pretty useless. Nobody had heard of the SDPC until Covid.
Now there have been various new groups set up to try and get some resolutions, and get the SG to sit up and take notice. We have the Scottish dental association, Scottish practice owners group, the association of private dentists amongst other. So far, none of these new groups, whilst they have the best of intentions, (and hopefully will get somewhere), have been made official, so the government won't negotiate. They have managed to get some of the stories into the press however.
Private dentistry isn't under the same governance as nhs. Each practice is different, but I believe private practices look to bodies such as Health Improvement Scotland for advice. They aren't bound by set, regulated pricing, they can choose their own fees. They can get back to work, as long as they have the surgery space, can manage the fallow time, and the PPE. They still won't be up to full capacity.

Can I just say that I value dentists hugely. Good oral health is so important to overall general health. I am just thankful that we have some sort of service at the moment, especially considering the risks. I don't understand why some people seem to hate dentists so much on here.

I had tooth erosion from severe HG. It does affect teeth.

My dentist hasn't opened, I broke a tooth 6 months ago, they can't do anything for me.