Surely shops aren't allowed to do this?

[AntFarm]

Our local post office/store has got a sign up outside stating that everyone entering must wear a mask and that exempt people must show proof of exemption before entering. It then goes on to list proof of exemption as :

A doctor's note on headed paper
Exemption letter from DWP
Hidden disabilities exemption card

If you cannot wear a mask and do not have any of these then you are not allowed to enter. They have, so generously, said that children under the age of 11 do not need to show proof.

I am not exempt, neither is anyone in my family, and we all happily wear masks no problem. It just doesn't seem right or fair that someone should have to show medical or personal documents to someone in a shop!

@Livelovebehappy

Don’t blame them at all. If they want to set those ground rules, then people should respect that and go elsewhere if they don’t agree with it. But good luck to them with the exemption letters - doctors aren’t providing them, but you can print them off willy nilly from online sites. I reckon half the people who don’t wear them have zero disabilities, but just either forget or can’t be arsed.

They're not allowed to set those ground rules though as they're being discriminatory in doing so.

Apparently my son can’t wear a mask because of his disability.... he does wear one though. He actually wears his more than I wear mine - I take mine off when not inside and it’s just me and him walking along but he prefers to keep his on.

Don’t blame them at all. If they want to set those ground rules, then people should respect that and go elsewhere

The people managing a post office are not above the law. They cant go about making up thier own rules.
But of course many on MN have done that right from the start so no big surprise that there are people agreeing to made up rules and disability or mental health discrimination on here.

In Germany, where I am, pretty much all shops state you can't enter without a mask. If they didn't do that probably about 75% of people wouldn't bother to wear one and staff would be at risk. I don't see why a shop shouldn't make rules like this, seems eminently sensible to me.

@msflibble

In Germany, where I am, pretty much all shops state you can't enter without a mask. If they didn't do that probably about 75% of people wouldn't bother to wear one and staff would be at risk. I don't see why a shop shouldn't make rules like this, seems eminently sensible to me.

Perhaps Germany's law allows them to do this.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat

Their shop, their rulez.

Bollocks. You can't opt out of disability legislation.

The fact that they're demanding letters and proof which doesn't exist, just proves what fuckwits they are.

@CouldBeOuting

Apparently my son can’t wear a mask because of his disability.... he does wear one though. He actually wears his more than I wear mine - I take mine off when not inside and it’s just me and him walking along but he prefers to keep his on.

What's that got to do with anything? I think you will find that nowhere in the rules it says you cannot wear a mask if you have x or y disability. It lists examples of disabilities including mental health or trauma issues where you will be exempt from wearing a mask if its impossible for you to do so. If you can then fine but someone else may not. Just because i have x and can tolerate a mask doesn't mean Mrs Jones down the street with the same problem can! Her version of it may be totally different from mine.

Has nobody got the ability to recognise Every one is different? Not all disabilities affect people the same way every time, people may have good days and bad days. It's not black and white and it seems the longer this goes in the less tolerant society is becoming.

In answer to the original post, the shop/Post Office has no authority in law to demand customers provide proof of their exemption before entering. The legislation does not place any requirements on the exempted person to provide evidence of this to shop staff or other customers. The shop/Post Office can put up a sign reminding people to wear one before entering (if they are not in the exemption categories obviously) but they cannot refuse entry to someone who isn't wearing one. They are opening themselves up to potential disability discrimination claims by doing so.

There is an obvious grey area whereby someone who just doesn't want to wear one for whatever reason could just claim to be exempt under the criteria provided for in the legislation. This of course then tars those who are genuinely exempt with the same brush.

My GP surgery has a notice on their website asking patients not to contact them asking for exemption letters because they won't be writing any. It is plays on the recorded message you hear if you phone the surgery. I very much doubt DWP staff are going to be producing letters either. I also think the Post Office won't be happy that one of their postmasters is acting in this way.

Livelovebehappy do you agree with everyone not in a mask being denied entry. That would include children as well. Or is it ok to deny entry just to disabled people.

Refusing entry is as discriminatory as demanding proof of disability/exemption, surely?! Just who do shop owners who do this think they are?

The blue badge thing is almost exactly the same by the way, the badge only shows the entitlement of the car, and the only people to demand proof that the person entitled to use the blue badge is the person at that moment using the parking space is the police, random enforcers can't do it. It's about protecting individuals from discrimination and having to prove their disabilities and disclose medical information to any old nosey parker.

In Germany, where I am, pretty much all shops state you can't enter without a mask. If they didn't do that probably about 75% of people wouldn't bother to wear one and staff would be at risk. I don't see why a shop shouldn't make rules like this, seems eminently sensible to me.

Let's be like Germany with their discrimination against disabled it isn't anything to be proud of.

GP and DWP don't issue exemption letters. You can buy a hidden disabilities card for less than a pound and you don't need any proof, so this both discriminates against disabled people and doesn't prevent non exempt people from entering.

People are shit scared of dying or catching covid. My ds has a disability but accepts not wearing a face covering can cause really frightening distress to some people so she wears a lanyard or a badge. We avoid shops if we see lots of people without face coverings. In winter she can tolerate a thin snood over her face when its cold.

What about people who can’t wear one due to being scared because of a sexual assault? Do they need to write a note?
How awful.

I find this automatic framing of the issue as discrimination vs the disabled odd. There are exemptions here for the disabled but people are still required to explain themselves if they can't wear a mask, which I think is fine. If there weren't rules about these things people would take the piss. It's a strange and difficult situation we're in and people have to do their part - there are a lot of inconveniences for everyone but the rules are generally there to keep people safe.

There are exemptions here for the disabled but people are still required to explain themselves if they can't wear a mask, which I think is fine.

Really you think the shop owner needs to know your medical history. With Germany's history you think there would be a bit more empathy with disabled.

"And why should someone have to prove they have a disability/condition that exempts them when they are not required to do so by law"

They have to prove it to get a disabled parking badge don't they? Otherwise anyone can say they're exmpt.

I've never seen anyone offer their medical history. I have seen, several times, people explain that they can't wear one for medical reasons and it's been accepted without further question.

People sometimes don't wear them on public transport too and I've personally never seen a single instance of random citizens policing each others' mask use.

The post office sign does seem a bit overzealous with all the documents listed but they're probably sick of perfectly well people taking the piss and not bothering.

@Gncq

And why should someone have to prove they have a disability/condition that exempts them when they are not required to do so by law

How else are you supposed to tell the difference between someone who doesn't like wearing a mask, someone who is politically against wearing a mask, and someone who has a condition?

One of the legal exemptions is for people who would be caused severe distress by wearing a mask, so the answer is that you're not supposed to.

You're quite correct OP, they're not acting legally.

In France, they have this exact system. Everyone has to wear a mask unless they have an exemption card, only delivered after a visit to the GP.

I wish we had that here because atm its impossible to pull up anyone who isn’t wearing one ‘because they might have sSN/an illness etc...’
All of which annoys me like hell when I see a good friend of mine who is the highly vulnerable category because of some lungs issues (as in extremely severe lungs issues) and has no issue at all wearing one...
If you add th fact that the police has already say they don’t have the ressources to enforce the masks in shops, no wonder it’s not happening as it shouod and people are taking the piss.

To be fair the vast majority of people can wear a mask. Many people are choosing not to. I'm asthmatic and although it's not pleasant (as I'm sure it's not for everyone) I can wear one. My elderly relative has severe COPD and she wears one no problem. It's better to keep yourself safe especially if you have these lung problems etc. I do understand that some anxiety problems etc would need someone to wear a mask but most people can.

Except of course where they are making rules that might be discriminatory against a protected characteristic wherein the Equality Act 2010 may come into play.

I believe there is an explicit public health exeption to the EA 2010.

Firstly, postal services are public services, and coronavirus or not, the law requires certain services to be made available to the public.

The post office is not part of royal mail anymore, it's a limited company. I'd be stunned if there was something in the 2011 Postal Services Act which would prevent a shop with a post office counter from declining service to specific customers.

FWIW I think (given the way the mask law is framed) it's utterly daft to try to require such 'proof' of disability but, in the short term, I don't think there is any legal basis which would prevent shops from doing so.

They have no legal basis for what they’re requesting. And for the “vote with your feet if you don’t like it” crew, just how many post offices do you think the average area has?