The government is trying to make you think schools will be socially distanced

[noblegiraffe]

The government are currently running a (well publicised) propaganda campaign to say that schools are safe. They are using social media influencers, journalists and friendly scientists (firmly ignoring any unfriendly ones like the Royal Society). Branwen Jefferys of the BBC tweeted “So how high is government anxiety about school return? A PR company acting on behalf of the Cabinet office is now emailing media offering experts to support the “messaging”. Strange way to approach news journalists ..”

And just about every news outlet running stories about schools seems to be rotating stock footage of half empty classrooms with teachers miles away from the kids. There have even been photos of kids getting temperature checks (not allowed). I was watching Sky news where a commentator was saying how awful it was that kids would be sent back to socially distanced schools. The PM gave a rambling speech to carefully spaced kids in a library. And in a visit to a classroom it’s clear that the kids were all shoved down one end in order to give some lovely spaced kids at the other end for the PM to pose in front of.
metro.co.uk/2020/08/27/boris-johnson-staged-school-visit-social-distancing-13188600/

Matt Hancock was on the news saying it was really important for teachers to stay 2m from the kids to avoid spreading the virus between all the bubbles they’ll be working in, despite knowing that this will be utterly and hopelessly impossible.

Why are the government lying? Why are they sending the ‘right’ experts to the press? Why are kids being spread out for staged photo shoots instead of honest pictures?

And why are the press largely going along with it?

Schools are going back, in a lot of cases to an estate that is unfit for purpose. Old buildings, no ventilation, large class sizes. Pupils will be crammed in facing a teacher who won’t be able to stand 2m from them. If it’s so safe, why aren’t they showing and acknowledging the reality?

YABU: what they are doing is fine and there are perfectly reasonable explanations for all the suggestions of socially distanced classrooms and schools in the media

YANBU: the lying liars are lying to us again

Cohort = as it was before CV19

Carbuncle read the OP, this thread is about government propaganda.

Do you think it is acceptable that the government are misleading the public on matters of public safety instead of being honest?

I had my fist bit of evidence of a government provided expert today, innocently tootling along listening to the radio. An education expert and 'ex headteacher' came on the radio to make reassuring noises. Now, I know he hasn't been a head for 5 years and hasn't been inside a school for a long time....

Noble will know who I mean !!

@FrippEnos

Does anyone else find it interesting that posters have stopped posting about New Zealand?

A place which should be held up as an example (and it was early on) as all its responses were excellent yet nothing is said about them as they had a hard lockdown and are still being ridged in their tackling of it.

What do you mean - That we posters used to talk positively about the lockdown but have stopped?

Probably because the realisation the only way out is vaccine and waiting fir that with closed borders is not great shakes for U.K., even if they can do it.

@noblegiraffe

Carbuncle read the OP, this thread is about government propaganda.

Do you think it is acceptable that the government are misleading the public on matters of public safety instead of being honest?

All this government has ever done is mislead people. They are a bunch of incompetent liars. As I said earlier, their current motivation for misleading people about how schools are going to be is to pander to people who believe that without masks and social distancing they are in grave danger - it's an underhanded patronising measure to alleviate people's fears.

If they were really being honest they would say 'We're sorry we scared you shitless, it was unnecessary. Everyone needs to get back to school and work because life has to go on and we're sorry we made you feel just living your life was dangerous.'

I find it even more interesting that they have stooped looking to Denmark.

Public Trust in the handling of the pandemic is lower here even than in the US, and massively lower than , say, Denmark. One of the reasons for that is clear and transparent government.

Now, I know he hasn't been a head for 5 years and hasn't been inside a school for a long time....

But has extensive experience in saying whatever the government want to be said. No wonder he was in their contacts.

MarshaBradyo

I mean that it no longer fits peoples agenda.

The virus is going to be around for a while and as such we need to adapt to it, rather than thinking that we can go back to "normal" and just get on with it.

On the subject of Sweden, read on. They say their lives have changed a great deal : more than any other country, apart from South Korea!

www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/08/27/most-approve-of-national-response-to-covid-19-in-14-advanced-economies/

I don’t think we should get back to normal which is why I’m pro SD in restaurants but with some help to get spending back up there so they can look after themselves without furlough help.

Schools should be back ft as they will be but other areas help out by SD or remaining closed (a few things left, not much).

The balance is ok

@noblegiraffe

Now, I know he hasn't been a head for 5 years and hasn't been inside a school for a long time....

But has extensive experience in saying whatever the government want to be said. No wonder he was in their contacts.

One of the Governments arseholes mouth pieces then

And there’s no reason to look to NZ anymore, we have gone in another direction and can’t get to where they are.

MarshaBradyo

With regard to children's health and well being, I am aware that there are posters on here that are vocal advocates of health and well being and have been for a long time and I have a huge amount of admiration for them.

But they are not the ones that I am talking about. There are many that have only just started "talking" about this and are only doing so as a sound bite to get what they want.

They will stop talking about it and have quietened down a huge amount since it was announced that schools would be opened fully.

Interesting, Carbuncle we agree the government is full of mendacious little shits but you think they applied their incompetence to lockdown (not needed) and I think they’re applying it to lifting lockdown.

So we need to look to the wider world to see which is the better interpretation. Other governments who seem more competent than ours are firmly in the ‘take it seriously’ camp and less competent governments are not (US). Sweden is up for grabs but the fact that they didn’t do any track and trace of kids in schools and didn’t investigate outbreaks is a black mark against them. We also know they are pursuing a policy of herd immunity which our government claims it isn’t.

@MarshaBradyo

And there’s no reason to look to NZ anymore, we have gone in another direction and can’t get to where they are.

But that shouldn't mean that we ignore their good practices.

Fripp I think it’s natural to advocate for your own child. Teachers may get the full picture but the people who are the loudest are the ones who feel most let down. So that will have exploded in volume as many became increasingly worried over mh of their dc and will subside as school reopens. I don’t think it’s that surprising.

@noblegiraffe

Interesting, Carbuncle we agree the government is full of mendacious little shits but you think they applied their incompetence to lockdown (not needed) and I think they’re applying it to lifting lockdown.

So we need to look to the wider world to see which is the better interpretation. Other governments who seem more competent than ours are firmly in the ‘take it seriously’ camp and less competent governments are not (US). Sweden is up for grabs but the fact that they didn’t do any track and trace of kids in schools and didn’t investigate outbreaks is a black mark against them. We also know they are pursuing a policy of herd immunity which our government claims it isn’t.

It doesn't really matter whether we're pursuing a policy of herd immunity or not, without a vaccine herd immunity is likely to happen anyway because a virus that is in the community spreads and there really isn't anything that can be done to stop that beyond welding people into their houses for weeks. No matter what the policy is at this stage, all it can do is slow the virus down, it can't make it disappear or stop it entirely.

Re NZ
They have good test and trace but their numbers are tiny.

We’d be better off learning from other countries with similar numbers.

The rest has been business as usual for 100 days, until now, and they do local lockdown like we do.

I noticed a news article this morning which clearly stated “advertisement sponsored by UK government” and it was a full article about how wonderfully safe schools will be. Basically it was propaganda.

[quote TheDailyCarbuncle]@noblegiraffe I mean this kindly - if you'r convinced that you are in danger, and are really worried, I'm very sorry that must be very hard.

There is a huge huge amount of evidence that it's very likely that you are in practically no danger at all. The far and away most likely thing to happen is that you either never get covid or if you do you're either not ill at all or ill for a short time then fine. That's what all of the actual real data on covid says.

If you still feel frightened in spite of that evidence, there's not much anyone can do for you really. Schools are places where lots of people congregate. Outbreaks happen there - of flu, of hand foot and mouth, of lots of things. Some measures can be taken to control them, but humans spread illnesses, it happens. Even with the most careful social distancing possible and tiny classes, it could still happen.

Chances are you will be absolutely fine. That's the reality of it.[/quote]
You’ll be accused of being “creepy”.

Nope, because Carbuncle then engaged in an interesting discussion.

There's a fair bit of censorship going on too. On another forum I responded to questions about what the last 2 weeks have been like in Scottish schools. I gave a detailed (and IMHO) fairly balance account, but the thread was deleted by mods.

Nice to see some healthy discussion of it here!

And to answer OP - YANBU. Of course people should be given accurate information. If the government want to run a happy jolly public health campaign to put a spin on it then they should do that, but there is a difference between spin and outright deception, and that deception shouldn't be spilling out into the media.

I did discuss, giraffe

Just don’t have quite the same view as you do, I’m afraid.

I think it's very clear that most MNers are very happy for the government to present a skewed picture of how it will be if it aligns with what they want to happen. Hence the wilful misunderstanding of your OP.

Many people voted for Brexit on the strength of the NHS lie. Many Brexiteers said the lie didn't matter because no one was stupid enough to believe it. People are happy for misinformation that plays to their agenda.

I do think that media aren't presenting the 'news' in sending out these fake images of classrooms.

That's what all of the actual real data on covid says.

No one reliable and appropriately educated would use actual and real straight after each other.