The government is trying to make you think schools will be socially distanced

[noblegiraffe]

The government are currently running a (well publicised) propaganda campaign to say that schools are safe. They are using social media influencers, journalists and friendly scientists (firmly ignoring any unfriendly ones like the Royal Society). Branwen Jefferys of the BBC tweeted “So how high is government anxiety about school return? A PR company acting on behalf of the Cabinet office is now emailing media offering experts to support the “messaging”. Strange way to approach news journalists ..”

And just about every news outlet running stories about schools seems to be rotating stock footage of half empty classrooms with teachers miles away from the kids. There have even been photos of kids getting temperature checks (not allowed). I was watching Sky news where a commentator was saying how awful it was that kids would be sent back to socially distanced schools. The PM gave a rambling speech to carefully spaced kids in a library. And in a visit to a classroom it’s clear that the kids were all shoved down one end in order to give some lovely spaced kids at the other end for the PM to pose in front of.
metro.co.uk/2020/08/27/boris-johnson-staged-school-visit-social-distancing-13188600/

Matt Hancock was on the news saying it was really important for teachers to stay 2m from the kids to avoid spreading the virus between all the bubbles they’ll be working in, despite knowing that this will be utterly and hopelessly impossible.

Why are the government lying? Why are they sending the ‘right’ experts to the press? Why are kids being spread out for staged photo shoots instead of honest pictures?

And why are the press largely going along with it?

Schools are going back, in a lot of cases to an estate that is unfit for purpose. Old buildings, no ventilation, large class sizes. Pupils will be crammed in facing a teacher who won’t be able to stand 2m from them. If it’s so safe, why aren’t they showing and acknowledging the reality?

YABU: what they are doing is fine and there are perfectly reasonable explanations for all the suggestions of socially distanced classrooms and schools in the media

YANBU: the lying liars are lying to us again

I don't think it is whinging, people discuss the topics of the day, always have done, always will do.

@Nellodee

The most important thing a government needs, when dealing with an outbreak, is the trust of its populace. We have seen this over numerous occasions with Ebola outbreaks in Africa. Unfortunately, having lost the faith of the English population, our government is now trying to win it back with more lies.

It didn't need to be this way. We could have had politicians who spoke to us honestly and like adults, as Merkel did in Germany. Of course, in order to get that, we would have needed to vote for someone with integrity.

I agree tone in other countries is preferable. Germany for one. Not just Merkel’s time but actual decisions.

But I don’t think control has been lost over majority. Every time this is said figures show high compliance.

One thing U.K. is good at is behavioural messaging. I don’t think it’s a bad thing when you need people to do stuff en masse.

Having said all that there was a thread the other day about what we’ve done well. We have made some good decisions, it was refreshing to see them on a thread.

Someone on another thread just said 'teachers will be in a bubble with their own class won't they?'

And yet people insist on this thread that parents are fully informed about the state of schools.

Tootletum
Given that rebuilding every school to have enough space for social distancing would cost billions, I assume you're chomping at the bit to pay more taxes? No? Pray tell what you suggest happens then.

I would but then I have always given a fuck about children's education and mental well being unlike many on here who seem to have only cared for about 1 - 2 months.

@FrippEnos

Tootletum Given that rebuilding every school to have enough space for social distancing would cost billions, I assume you're chomping at the bit to pay more taxes? No? Pray tell what you suggest happens then.

I would but then I have always given a fuck about children's education and mental well being unlike many on here who seem to have only cared for about 1 - 2 months.

That’s not true. We’ve all cared about our dc education, from their start, maybe a few that don’t, but majority are obviously invested.

@noblegiraffe

Someone on another thread just said 'teachers will be in a bubble with their own class won't they?'

And yet people insist on this thread that parents are fully informed about the state of schools.

I’m not saying they’re fully informed, it’s clear they’re not, I’m just wondering why not. People know that their children travel on school transport. They know that children have siblings in other classes. Communication from the schools should be clear on who the ‘bubble’ is made up of and what teachers will be crossing those bubbles. For example in secondary, surely they know that one teacher cannot teach every subject?

@noblegiraffe

Ok, let's assume the thesis that government massively oversold lockdown and we're now all petrified of a minor illness and need to be lied at to get back to normal.

How does that explain what is going on in the rest of the world? Schools opening and closing all over the place. Kids behind screens wearing masks or being offered the option of remote schooling for a year.

Are you suggesting that the entire world was convinced by Boris's ' Stay home' message?

No, of course not. It's not the case that the entire world is opening and closing schools - in Sweden school never closed for pupils under 16 and research has shown that keeping schools open did not increase the spread of infection in any significant way.

Because so little was known about covid decisions about how to deal with it were ideological and political rather than based on any real knowledge. Much of Europe took the decision to treat it as deadly and to control the spread at the expense of people's physical and mental health, the economy and children. Those countries can't really turn around now and say 'you know what, that wasn't necessary,' can they? They've locked themselves into the message that it's deadly and that lockdown was vital because admitting otherwise would be certain suicide.

Look at New Zealand - they've been praised and lauded for their approach, best in the world etc. They're absolutely fixed on not allowing even the smallest number of cases. Fair enough, expect that that then ties them into keeping their borders closed until...when? When will they have to admit that their approach just can't work any more?

Schools in Sweden used social distancing and small classes

Political messaging IS something "we" are good at in this country. Unfortunately, only the bastards are good at it. It's why we have Brexit. It's exactly the same people using exactly the same techniques now. It makes half the population comply and the other half of the country despair. The messages seem designed to set people against each other every time, probably because if we all worked together, for the interests of the majority, the people designing those messages would be totally fucked.

MarshaBradyo

Many on here haven't cared about children's health and mental well being at all. (and I include the us 4 them shills).

Funding for schools has been reduced. (in real terms)
Funding for SEND has been reduced
They changed the criteria for SEND provision.
They have underfunded CAMHS.
Etc. etc.

Teachers have posted about this and we get called whingers and toils to get on with it.

So there is very much a point to saying that a huge amount of people don't give a shit about children's health and mental well being.

So much as some care, most are just using it as a stick to beat teachers with.

www.facebook.com/758479440962898/posts/2155094864634675/

Video showing a fake classroom set up for the camera

@ineedaholidaynow

Schools in Sweden used social distancing and small classes

Bear in mind that schools were open during the peak of the spread of the virus, when infection rates we very high. No masks were worn and children still attended sports clubs, and were allowed to attend gatherings of up to 50 people outside of school. Social distancing in school doesn't mean much if the kids are then going and seeing a large amount of their friends after school every day. So overall the potential for infection was high, and yet there weren't big outbreaks and the statistics showed that rates of infection among teachers were not higher than other professions.

@FrippEnos

MarshaBradyo

Many on here haven't cared about children's health and mental well being at all. (and I include the us 4 them shills).

Funding for schools has been reduced. (in real terms)
Funding for SEND has been reduced
They changed the criteria for SEND provision.
They have underfunded CAMHS.
Etc. etc.

Teachers have posted about this and we get called whingers and toils to get on with it.

So there is very much a point to saying that a huge amount of people don't give a shit about children's health and mental well being.

So much as some care, most are just using it as a stick to beat teachers with.

I see so many posts from frustrated parents who very much care about reduced funding to SEND and CAMHS. In fact a thread about what would you change has loads of posts on the latter atm.

It’ll be people let down by it which isn’t everyone, not everyone uses it. On general funding a party should run on improving education. Here’s hoping next time we get the option. Overall I’ve found it good (having used state v private) but would be interested in policy around education.

Very late to this party but in response to the comment about headteachers, obviously certain heads are rent a quote , but here is one who dares to speak out:

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/leading-london-headteacher-attacks-dizzying-ministerial-advice-on-masks/ar-BB18sBAw?ocid=spartanntp_edu

It was 15 in Sweden as it goes.

What do you suggest happens to those aged 16-18 carbuncle?

Oh, and no one was being tested in March!!

We had nearly 100 students and seven staff off in late March. No one ahs any idea whether that was an outbreak or not. I do know I was as ill as I have ever been.

I wasn’t necessarily talking about ‘speaking out’, more just that schools should, in their literature about school returns, be telling parents exactly how the logistics will work. Our head was clear that there will be no social distancing and some teachers would be crossing ‘bubbles’ (primary).
Equally parents should be making sure that they now the arrangements for their child’s school, rather than watching a clip on BBC news of kids sitting 2m apart in masks and assuming that their school will be exactly like that.

*know

@Piggywaspushed

It was 15 in Sweden as it goes.

What do you suggest happens to those aged 16-18 carbuncle?

I suggest they go to school, as normal, without masks.

[quote noblegiraffe]Sweden never closed schools and never implemented social distancing and there is no evidence that it has lead to any infections.

Lack of evidence isn't evidence of lack. Sweden famously didn't do any testing of school children to avoid finding evidence.

"Yet Swedish officials have not tracked infections among school children—even when large outbreaks led to the closure of individual schools or staff members died of the disease.
“It’s really frustrating that we haven’t been able to answer some relatively basic questions on transmission and the role of different interventions,” says Carina King, an infectious disease epidemiologist at the Karolinska Institute (KI), Sweden’s flagship medical research center. King says she and several colleagues have developed a protocol to study school outbreaks, “but the lack of funding, time, and previous experience of conducting this sort of research in Sweden has hampered our progress."

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools[/quote]
Requoting this post from upthread for the hard of reading.

Sage has begged the government to drop the use of the word bubbles for school. Even they know it is misleading and illusionary.

They are attempting to introduce the term cohorting. You listen : you will never hear Whitty say bubble.

@Piggywaspushed

Sage has begged the government to drop the use of the word bubbles for school. Even they know it is misleading and illusionary.

They are attempting to introduce the term cohorting. You listen : you will never hear Whitty say bubble.

Now this I’m happy about. For linguistic reasons mostly,

But that isn't what was done in Sweden, which you keep citing, so there must be a reason.

@noblegiraffe I mean this kindly - if you'r convinced that you are in danger, and are really worried, I'm very sorry that must be very hard.

There is a huge huge amount of evidence that it's very likely that you are in practically no danger at all. The far and away most likely thing to happen is that you either never get covid or if you do you're either not ill at all or ill for a short time then fine. That's what all of the actual real data on covid says.

If you still feel frightened in spite of that evidence, there's not much anyone can do for you really. Schools are places where lots of people congregate. Outbreaks happen there - of flu, of hand foot and mouth, of lots of things. Some measures can be taken to control them, but humans spread illnesses, it happens. Even with the most careful social distancing possible and tiny classes, it could still happen.

Chances are you will be absolutely fine. That's the reality of it.

Does anyone else find it interesting that posters have stopped posting about New Zealand?

A place which should be held up as an example (and it was early on) as all its responses were excellent yet nothing is said about them as they had a hard lockdown and are still being ridged in their tackling of it.