Teachers could be superspreaders due to lack of mitigation measures admits Matt Hancock

[noblegiraffe]

Ok, he didn’t say it outright, but he admitted that what was hoped to stop coronavirus spreading in schools was teachers maintaining 2m distance from pupils at all times.

Teachers have been saying for months that this is impossible due to small classrooms where there just isn’t enough space to be 2m away from your front row of students. It’s also impossible to support a child from 2m away when you need to see what they are doing, but literally zero thought has been given to this.

But that’s it. That’s all the protection that will be given to teachers - an impossible directive to social distance.

Matt Hancock said this morning “The principle is that we want to keep certain teachers socially distanced from the pupils because there are all sorts of circumstances where a teacher might need to teach classes that are in different bubbles within the school.”

Secondary teachers will routinely be teaching all year groups in a school. Supply teachers will be going between schools.

“My answer to you is that it is the social distancing between the teacher and pupils which is the goal here, but our total focus is on getting the schools back”

Getting the schools back. Not getting them back safely. Not ensuring that they stay open and that staff and pupils stay safe.

www.tes.com/news/hancock-keep-supply-teachers-distanced-pupils

I spoke to my MP on this yesterday. He was clueless about schools —and everything else I asked— he tried wittering about money will be given to schools. I asked when as local schools are still waiting on laptops & was told ‘term hasn’t started yet, but it will be’ he couldn’t see/was unwilling to accept that schools might want the funding to prepare for term —and won’t risk spending until it actually exists—

I agree with @TheHoneyBadger

However, unfortunately there are a lot of workplaces operating in the inadequate buildings you describe - particularly charities and public sector.

This doesn’t excuse it, but it’s not the case that these places are shut down.

Oh you should have started a thread with that post, Honey

I get my area at 0.6% infected.

@TheHoneyBadger

Cynically I believe the whole fake news about unions and teachers blocking schools from opening was a smokescreen to draw attention away from the disastrous state of schools making them unsafe to open because they’re in such a state.

A business with no ventilation or suitable numbers of toilets and sinks and abysmal hygiene would be closed down. Likewise a nightclub that was letting in numbers way over safe capacity and without enough staff yet this is standard for schools.

We need to start demanding real change to the environment and conditions our children have to spend years of their life in. Then watch the teacher retainment problems disappear.

Agree 100%. And so many fell for it too judging by the amount of previous MN posters accusing school staff and teachers of making a fuss about nothing. Or did they have a different agenda when they were mocking the teachers and downplaying the seriousness of the lack of safety in our schools? The most infuriating for me was a poster claiming to be a teacher who was very happy to return, would refuse to wear a mask and saw no problem at all. Yet they omitted to say that they taught in an independent school with smaller classes and all the benefits of greater funding.

@noblegiraffe

Oh you should have started a thread with that post, Honey

I haven’t got the stomach for that.

Mrshoho I believe that’s the poster who had a post deleted where she came at me with a horrible personal and professional attack. She appeared to be under the impression the only time a teacher ever gets sworn at is if they are totally useless and have zero classroom management skills.

Now she really is teaching in a bubble

What happens if schools spend money they don't have? What if all schools did it?

@Fortyfifty

What happens if schools spend money they don't have? What if all schools did it?

I believe schools that can't manage their budgets are at risk of being taken over by one of those super multi academies.

Honeybadger, Yes it could be. What a twisted person to make those judgements in the safety of their cushy number.

Yes, Honey, the very same poster who did a brief stint at Supply, couldn't hack it in state schools and so decamped to a nice little private school, from where she lectures the rest of us about being snowflakes.

MrsH and THB pretty sure that was life somebody?

But yes I remember.

And interesting you say about schools being taken over by super academies.

I suggested the other day I wondered if this is what government is aiming for? I said my heckles ate raising that they have some sort of hidden agenda.

*I wish we could use this moment in time to go hang on why are our kids being taught in huge classes packed into tiny rooms, why don’t our schools look like the ones in Denmark or Sweden, how come we have a staffing shortage when teaching is a really desirable job in some European countries, why do our kids not have technology that is pretty much essential for modern education etc.

I wish all of the anger and outrage that’s come at teachers had been directed at government who have run schools into the ground but can afford publicity campaigns to pretend they’re safe and who subsidise their own accommodation, transport, food, home offices etc from public funds but don’t want to have to pay for sanitiser and cleaning in schools or pay for fsm for the poorest of children.

It really would have been good to have a reckoning and come up with real (not shuffled about or 90% to go in backhanders to cronies tutoring companies) funding to drag our schools into the 21st century.*

I’m a parent not a teacher (but ex nurse & ex HE lecturer) but totally agree with this. Regardless of whether it’s Tories or Labour it’s always been shocking. No government seems to invest in public services.

@itsgettingweird

MrsH and THB pretty sure that was life somebody?

But yes I remember.

And interesting you say about schools being taken over by super academies.

I suggested the other day I wondered if this is what government is aiming for? I said my heckles ate raising that they have some sort of hidden agenda.

There is definitely a hidden agenda. I think someone fancies themselves as some sort of patrician of ankh morpork type. There's all sorts of outcomes they would like. Playing chicken with the unions to see if they will call a strike = break the unions. Forcing schools to overspend = MAT and creaming off of funds Forcing older (expensive) teachers to retire or just plain walk = cost savings...

I think it is important to acknowledge that mumsnet tends to be quite 'England-centric' - for obvious reasons of course. It does vary around the UK, not all countries have the recruitment crisis described here. I am in NI, NQT struggle to get jobs here. They usually have to substitute for a few years before getting a permanent job. I know quite a few who had to move to England for work. I genuinely think there is lot of respects for teachers here.

All teachers in my DC's schools (both primary and secondary, 3 different schools) were wearing masks this week (mostly very badly according to a teen dc - noses out, masks inside out or upside down etc). All kids were temp checked (in all 3 schools) and are observed washing their hands in the classroom. Windows were wide open, teachers stayed up at the front of the room, TA's had both masks and visors when up close to kids - and those kids had to wear a mask too, just for that short time (primary). Teen DC had to clean down her own desk and chair at the end of each class (they are GCSE year so don't bubble).

Teen DC had to wear a mask in corridors and the lunch area. Many DC wore masks during class and this is actively encouraged.

My teacher friends say they are happy with arrangements and feel safe (at the moment anyway!).

I do think schools here are doing all they can and seem to be listening to the concerns of staff and parents. I really hope that this continues.

What a shame school staff in England cannot be afforded the same - basic health and safety precautions.

I would fully support staff striking if their conditions are unsafe, I would also fully support part time schooling IF teachers were supported to be able to provide good home learning support (it was dreadful before the summer, and I have experience of 3 schools so well equipped to give an opinion!). I think the idea of classes divided in half and group A attending Mon and Tues and group B Thurs and Fri with Wed being used for setting the homework and cleaning was a brilliant idea. I just had reservations due to the poor home learning materials previously provided.

I have extreme doubts about the poster you're all referring too. In fact, I hope they're not real, because the idea that someone like that is responsible for educating children gives me the horrors.

Thanks you for another great thread* @noblegiraffe*. You are one of the voices of sanity who has helped me keep a (shaky) grip on my own through this. (I'm another one who has had to go back onto anti-Depressants because of this nightmare. Not a teacher, but an ally, and a shielded parent).

Why which of their Tory Toff boy friends will want a contract for a MAT?

Or does it not matter - like the company that got a huge contract who companies house had down as having assets of £100 and not even registered within the business they got the contract for (PPE I think)

Don't know. Was just thinking about the like of Lord Agnew. And as CEOs of MATs earn about £500,000 I don't think they'll mind that it's supposedly about education...

90% of teachers say they won’t be able to stay 2m from the kids. Given that the Heath Secretary said this was crucial to their plans for schools remaining safe, this is worrying:

www.tes.com/news/distancing-schools-unachievable-say-90-teachers

I can't help but feel schools are being set up to fail. The government know full well that teachers cannot maintain 2m distance.

Will teachers get regular testing like some health care workers are? Would teachers even want to be tested regular? i believe the tests can be quite unpleasant

Will teachers get regular testing like some health care workers are?

No teachers are only tested if symptomatic as apparently that approach is " most effective" . I don't doubt that teachers would accept regular testing so as to identify and minimise the extent of any outbreaks but it is not going to happen

School leaders have been saying for years that there is a capacity problem with existing school buildings - particularly the case in village primaries, which are often in old Victorian school houses. Every time the school I work at has a fire safety inspection, the report states that we are dangerously overcrowded. Governments have known about the lack of space for as long as it has been an issue.

In the government guidance I'm sure I read that mobile testing could be brought in when there has been confirmed cases in a setting. Seems to me that would be after the horse has bolted.

Our education system is awful. Broken and not at all fit for purpose.

Schools are very poorly funded yet Dido Harding is earning £65k for her two day a week NHS job. Our government doesn’t seem to value education.

A good saliva test would help schools massively.