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Original poster

Schools and Corona virus

66 replies

speakout · 27/08/2020 08:14

Two large (800 pupils each) secondary schools near me ( Scotland) now both have pupils who have tested positive for Covid in the past two days.
Schools have been back in Scotland for over two weeks.
The response is to send the positive pupils home and carry on as normal- no testing of other pupils or staff, no deep cleaning.
I feel quite unsettled- this virus is obviously still at large in our communities.

OP posts:
walksen · 27/08/2020 08:19

Doesn't sound right. If another pupil has been sat within 1m for 15 minutes plus don't they get told to self isolate at home.

Unless of course the school is big enough to social distance properly.

Maybe the staff are advised to go to drive through centres etc but you won't hear about it unless they test positive?

Original poster
speakout · 27/08/2020 08:25

Yes it doesn't sound right- cases are popping up in schools all around here- a taste of things to come for England I fear.

OP posts:
SexTrainGlue · 27/08/2020 08:26

Yes, it was always blazingly clear that this would happen.

Unfortunately the choices that were saying that we need to have systems for schools to re-open sustainably got a bit drowned out by the 'they must go back' voices. So the need to plan for mitigations and contingencies when there were one or two cases (but bubble not yet burst) tended to get lumped in with 'you just want the schools to stay closed' accusations. That was somewheat unhelpful, as I think it meant people were not thinking about what could so easily happen.

Your school OP does not seem to be asking those closest to confirmed cases to isolate. That seems wrong, but they might be leaving it to T&T to sort out (which would be fine if we all had faith it was working well). For secondary age DC, if unmasked, then sitting next to a confirmed case for the length of a lesson would lead to a need to isolate (whether that took place in school, in a cafe, in someone's home) is a transmission risk and really ought to be treated as such. Even if it's not enough to burst a bubble, closest contacts should be isolated.

Does the school have good parallel off-site learning provision? This will make a significant difference to the educational impact of having a few pupils having to isolate

SexTrainGlue · 27/08/2020 08:29

Maybe the staff are advised to go to drive through centres etc but you won't hear about it unless they test positive?

a) you are not necessarily going to be told someone else's medical info, though should be told about presence of a positive confirmed case that has been close enough to you/your DC to require you to isolate

b) testing does not release you from isolation following close contact with a confirmed case (as you can be incubating it for up to 14 days)

Ickabog · 27/08/2020 08:29

Some pupils will have been asked to self isolate. This is the guidance.

Based on the advice from the health protection team, schools must send home those people who have been in close contact with the person who has tested positive, advising them to self-isolate for 14 days since they were last in close contact with that person when they were infectious. Close contact means:

  • direct close contacts - face to face contact with an infected individual for any length of time, within 1 metre, including being coughed on, a face to face conversation, or unprotected physical contact (skin-to-skin)
  • proximity contacts - extended close contact (within 1 to 2 metres for more than 15 minutes) with an infected individual
  • travelling in a small vehicle, like a car, with an infected person
MadameBlobby · 27/08/2020 08:30

Our school of 1600 pupils hasn’t had any cases so far but I suspect it’s just a matter of time. Did people honestly think schools were going to open and no one was going to get it?

MadameBlobby · 27/08/2020 08:32

As for the response, as long as they are doing contact tracing then that’s fine surely. What do you actually expect to be done?

walksen · 27/08/2020 08:36

b) testing does not release you from isolation following close contact with a confirmed case (as you can be incubating it for up to 14 days)

But staff are not supposed to be within 2m if pupils for more than 15m at least so won't need to isolate if a pupil tests positive unless they confirm they gave been unable to follow the guidance.

I assumed staff are offered tests because they are more susceptible and or spreading it in their coffee breaks and reckless social gatherings? I wouldn't expect staff to be named but if there were staff members testing positive that would be mentioned?

Original poster
speakout · 27/08/2020 08:40

What do you actually expect to be done?

I would like to see all pupils and staff tested in a school where an individual is covid positive. Children can carry this virus with no symptoms.
Mobile testing units could test everyone in a school in a day- while keeping the school open and running.
Then we would have a clearer picture of what we are dealing with.
The asymtomatic nature of covid in children means the virus can spread like wildfire undetected.

OP posts:
peridito · 27/08/2020 08:41

But staff are not supposed to be within 2m if pupils for more than 15m

But in practice is this possible to comply with ?

BelleSausage · 27/08/2020 08:44

They won’t close schools again until several staff members or pupils die.

Parents will continue to send in sick kids because the message around testing has been so mixed.

Schools will have temporary closures because of staff absence in the winter.

And we all et find out how flawed that PHE study was (because it was done in nearly empty schools).

walksen · 27/08/2020 08:44

"i would like to see all pupils and staff tested in a school where an individual is covid positive. Children can carry this virus with no symptoms."

Much as I think it would be a good idea to proactively test schools ( which NS did promise I think) the fact is there is still a lack of capacity even with the small numbers in the immunity at present. It's been in the news about people directed to England and home kits running out etc. I dont think this will happen in the near future if at all.

CovoidanceMechanism · 27/08/2020 08:46

Lovely school says

“the government docs say all children should return to school as all shielding ended on 1st Aug, which suggests schools cannot authorize non attendance due to Covid from this term. This was what the LA advice confirmed- they would expect all children to return.
We need to talk through the concerns...and so we can see if there is any way we can address these with measures in place at school. I do understand that not everyone will feel convinced schools are safe enough given the issues arising in other areas.“

So deregistering the only option.

BelleSausage · 27/08/2020 08:47

@walksen

You do know that most classrooms are too small to allow for this distance, especially with the kids in rows (mandated by the DfE).

I’m going to be spending 5 hours a day in rooms with no ventilation with 32 adult sized people who mostly won’t be wearing masks and will be closer than a meter away at any point, even if I sit at the teacher desk all lesson.

Kitcat122 · 27/08/2020 08:51

In my primary school we as staff are not told which pupil is being tested unless we have had close contact. We find out through staff gossip but are not officially told.

walksen · 27/08/2020 08:52

"But in practice is this possible to comply with ?"

will it be possible to stay 2m at all times -- no
Will be be possible to stay 2m away for less than 15m -- no
Will it be possible to stay 2m for more than 15m. Possibly if you circulate to different areas and there is a space somewhere you can stay 2m way from all pupils.

If you spend 4:mins near a kid for4 lessons a week is that close contact?

walksen · 27/08/2020 08:53

Sorry wrong way around you can stay 2m most of the time but I doubt all the time!

minnieok · 27/08/2020 08:54

@speakout

My DD's high school had 2800 students, they couldn't test that many in a week with one testing person!

LordOftheRingz · 27/08/2020 08:54

This bubble stuff and these arrangements are just tokenism. There is no way that a virus will not move through the whole area with children.

It is just for psychological reasons, the truth is they know it will whip through and they are prepared for the inevitable outcome.

If you send your child in you must know that it will probably come into contact with Covid, but like they said the risks with children are low.

Original poster
speakout · 27/08/2020 08:59

My DD's high school had 2800 students, they couldn't test that many in a week with one testing person!

No- but a mobile van with 3 staff could test most medium sized schools in a day.
My OH had a Covid test a few weeks ago at a drive through station- the whole thing from start to finish took around 4 minutes.

OP posts:
BelleSausage · 27/08/2020 08:59

@walksen

And I’m telling you that in almost all the classrooms I will be teaching in there will be no possibly of ever being 2m away. I’ll be in close contact all day.

Frazzled2207 · 27/08/2020 09:05

@speakout
Given that there may well be hundreds of schools that have one positive case on a given fan sending a van out to all of those is clearly unrealistic. If there is reason to believe virus is actually spreading at school that is another matter. However incubation period can be up to a week, perhaps longer, so testing can easily give false sense of security.

walksen · 27/08/2020 09:07

And I’m telling you that in almost all the classrooms I will be teaching in there will be no possibly of ever being 2m away. I’ll be in close contact all day.

Fair enough. Depends on your school layout class size etc.

Frazzled2207 · 27/08/2020 09:07

I was horrified to learn yesterday that schools are to be given ten tests each and that where possible we have to take the children to a drive through.
20 mile doable round trip for us but vast swathes of the population are much further than that OR don’t drive. Yes I know you can get postal tests but they can take days. If there is a potential outbreak in school schools needs to know within hours not days.

phlebasconsidered · 27/08/2020 09:08

In my classroom I cannot, at any point be more than 1 metre away from a child. There are currently 32 on register, with 2 more transfers likely in September. Furthermore, I will be expected to mark all their work every night and work alongside them in intervention groups. I will be cleaning their toilets, wiping the tables and eating with them. I will have one 20 minute break away from them all day.

If I don't get it I will be a medical miracle. This whole return to school is nothing short of a scandal. I agree with pp that nothing will happen until people have died.