Schools and Corona virus

[speakout]

Two large (800 pupils each) secondary schools near me ( Scotland) now both have pupils who have tested positive for Covid in the past two days.
Schools have been back in Scotland for over two weeks.
The response is to send the positive pupils home and carry on as normal- no testing of other pupils or staff, no deep cleaning.
I feel quite unsettled- this virus is obviously still at large in our communities.

There wouldn't be a point in testing everyone if there was 1 case, due to the incubation period being up to 14 days - you could test negative but still be incubating it. You would have to test them multiple times.

we haven't had any cases so far

I assumed staff are offered tests because they are more susceptible and or spreading it in their coffee breaks and reckless social gatherings?

Reckless social gatherings?

Unlike kids, teens and parents?

There wouldn't be a point in testing everyone if there was 1 case, due to the incubation period being up to 14 days - you could test negative but still be incubating it. You would have to test them multiple times.

Not if you assumed if the positive case was the index case but it might show if there were others already infected as well. They didn't wait 14 days to test at Dundee did they?

@MadameBlobby

Our school of 1600 pupils hasn’t had any cases so far but I suspect it’s just a matter of time. Did people honestly think schools were going to open and no one was going to get it?

They did!

It was our moral duty and children don't spread it don't you know?

Just those pesky teachers taking coffee breaks all day long

Sextrain (don't think I've ever called anyone that )

Excellent posts. Very true and informative. I hope people read it properly.

that was closed due to vulnerability of the children. It is mainly adult staff that was affected there.

Reckless social gatherings?

Yes phe said the educators need educating be cause they claim their contracting covid elsewhere and spreading it is the main risk to schools...

And not maintaining SD during their supposed coffee breaks..

And Kingspark pupils/staff have been sent home to self isolate for 14 days - they didnt test everyone

I saw a screenshot on another thread yesterday about a German school.

They'd have a few cases so did mass testing.

There were 120 odd teachers positive and 400 children (mainly asymptomatic)

Few school support staff from various roles.

The way they are avoiding getting evidence children pass to staff to refusing mass testing and testing asymptomatic.

If you don't find a child with an asymptotic case then they can't possibly have passed it to a teacher - right?

Am aware of that demented - my point was that there can be value in at least offering to test people when a case is detected. You can identify other existing infections and contact trace them and isolate others who may have been infected ( as testing a new infection may give a negative)

If any children in the front row of classes test positive there will be many teachers having to go home to self isolate as most classrooms cannot accommodate the 2m safe area for teachers. Schools will have to close due to staff shortages

This bmj article is interesting and shows how vulnerable teachers and students will be in a full and poorly ventilated classroom.
www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3223
I'm attaching the diagram which shows a summary.

As we don’t seem to have the capacity to regularly test pupils and staff-something the scientists/experts were saying was needed for full schools reopenings to be successful (along with the various other mitigation’s) the guidance to school should air on the side of caution: Any staff member or pupil who has symptom(s) requires the whole bubble to be immediately closed. If test returns negative everyone back assuming symptoms have subsided, if positive this should “pop” the bubble, everyone self isolating for 14 days. If a teacher has crossed to another bubble that should “pop” as well if it was the teacher who tested positive. Siblings in other bubbles wouldn’t need to self isolate unless a positive came from their family. If 2 or more test positive (the classification of an outbreak PHE) whole school closed for 14days and extra testing measures brought in. At the moment (England) I believe bubbles aren’t “popped” until 2 test positive.

At the moment (England) I believe bubbles aren’t “popped” until 2 test positive.

Not even then. 2 positive cases is when other measures may be considered, such as isolating the bubble, year group or closing the school. 2 cases doesn't automatically mean the bubble is popped (all pupils isolating)

"i would like to see all pupils and staff tested in a school where an individual is covid positive. Children can carry this virus with no symptoms."

That would pick up any children that already have it but it won't pick up those who have caught it but are not yet testing positive. It makes more sense to have close contacts stay home as it puts both of the above out of circulation.

I believe DfE guidance says teachers aren't counted as part of bubbles.
I will be teaching 9 different classes at least. If there's a positive case in any of them I won't get tested unless.i show symptoms, and I won't be asked to self isolate either.
This term is going to be fun

@speakout

What do you actually expect to be done?

I would like to see all pupils and staff tested in a school where an individual is covid positive. Children can carry this virus with no symptoms.
Mobile testing units could test everyone in a school in a day- while keeping the school open and running.
Then we would have a clearer picture of what we are dealing with.
The asymtomatic nature of covid in children means the virus can spread like wildfire undetected.

That’s ridiculous. Our school has 1600 pupils- that’s a large school, the 2 you refer to are actually quite small schools. You can’t test a whole school of 1600 kids when 1 kid tests positive. Plus it might not do any good if they are still incubating - surely contact tracing and isolating is sufficient.

Nick Gibb (school standards minister so not sure why he is the authority) was clear that only symptomatic people would be tested. Public Health can obviously make a different decision if they suspect an outbreak.

Testing bubbles when there's a case in class on initial outset would be a good idea.

Also for research purposes.

It would be good to have the data that if 1 person in a classroom bubble shows symptoms how many currently have been attending asymptomatically.

Perhaps testing every 5 days for 2 weeks to keep a track.

Right now there is so much conflicting scientific beliefs around kids transmitting, age at which they tend to have adult reaction/transmission and how much asymptomatic people transmit it would be a great study of a university teamed up with some local schools.

Testing bubbles when there's a case in class

Not practical: in secondary a “bubble” might have 400 pupils in it.

@Piggywaspushed

Nick Gibb (school standards minister so not sure why he is the authority) was clear that only symptomatic people would be tested. Public Health can obviously make a different decision if they suspect an outbreak.

Hmmm I wonder why it's being disbanded 🤔

I think we all do...

They are still carrying on the study into transmission, part of which was conveniently leaked released last week.

I dont even think bubbles have been mentioned in our secondary school. The kids have at least 3 different classes per day so mixing with different people. They have at least made the classes into double periods so less moving between classrooms in one day.