Why aren’t we talking about universities?

[Redolent]

Not the teaching bit, which I’m sure will be managed somewhat well, but the bringing together of young people - freshers’ week and beyond - in what is normally an excess of socializing, partying,?alcohol and sex. I rarely see this being mentioned alongside schools even though it coincides with opening.

Backtracking has already happened in the US, eg UNC reversing its plan to hold in-person classes after only a week. 835 positive tests so far.

indyweek.com/news/orange/unc-carolina-inn-covid-19/

Universities are putting all sorts of plans in place to mitigate against problems. But ultimately students are adults - if they're old enough and bright enough to go to university then they ought to be able to behave responsibly.

I suppose we just have to hope that idiots don't totally ruin it for the rest.

Teenagers aren’t following any rules now. So they’ll do so even less once they move away from home & get their first taste of freedom. I went to a red brick uni & did a degree that required straight A’s. We might have been intellectual but certainly didn’t stop any of us getting hammered multiple times a week, pubs, bars, one night stands, in & out of each other’s houses or halls etc etc.. teenagers are inherently rule breakers & boundary pushers. You feel like you are invincible as a teen and you are naturally pretty selfish. I cringe at my 16- 21 year old self! I’d have known this virus probably wouldn’t be worse than a cold for me & not cared about anything else. I’d have been furious at my freedom being revoked.

The only positive with uni is that it’s quite bubble like. Teens go away from home & mix with other teens. They likely won’t be popping in to see Granny or even their parents as most do go away from home. Not all but a good majority. So they’ll likely spread it among themselves & hopefully not to the elderly!

Many of us are! With uni age students.

The unis have loads of plans in place - they want to keep infection down as they are businesses! When out and about students will have to follow the same rules as rest of us.

Lots of teens are still following the rules!
Lots of us are still talking about unis too.

DS is starting this year - halls allocated on a course basis, so students bubble in their flats with course mates. Each flat counts as a household, so if one of them gets symptoms, the whole flat will have to isolate. Most are having lectures on line with only smaller-scale sessions (tutorials, lab work etc) hoping to be face-to-face where distancing can happen. Freshers week seems to be virtual this year - ie joining clubs etc.

Teenagers aren’t following any rules now.

Bit of a blanket statement surely? Some of the most ardent rule followers I know at the moment are teenagers. My DP's daughter aged 19 is still completely paranoid about going close to other people.

Thanks for explaining the measures being put in place. Sounds reassuring. And yes I suppose they will be living in bubbles of sorts (bar the odd family visit, and of course return for Christmas).

The difference between uni and school is that many uni students stay away from home, so if they catch it, they won't spread it to family members.
Whereas school kids will kill granny.

Maybe it’s the teens I know & I’ve seen 🙈 I mean not just teens, I don’t know many adults still following SD either! And maybe the two go hand in hand. Freshers week may be virtual in terms of joining clubs & maybe halls will be monitored but I think you’d be foolish to think those in years 2 & 3 in student houses all located in one area (as many are) will be following the one household indoors rule.. it just will not happen. Alcohol & teens go hand in hand. Again, not all. But a largeeee majority! And once alcohol is involved, well, we all know what happens..

On results day (anecdotally) 50% of the pupils that came in for results were wearing masks.

International students are quarantining for 2 weeks - in very strict conditions. Many won’t be able to travel home at Xmas. It is a huge compliment that they still want to come bless them!

The only reporting that seems to be done on US universities is about those that have struggled with reopening, usually because they've done a crappy job of putting proper rules and testing in place.

In my state, the universities that have already gone back have had a very low Covid rate so far, and have been able to stay open.

DD goes back soon. She has already been sent a pre-return Covid test to do. She'll then be tested upon arrival, and will quarantine for 14 days, as will every other returner. They'll then be tested weekly.

Many US universities, DD's included, have made it clear that planning or taking part in large gatherings will result in suspension from college, being banned from campus, and potentially having offers of places withdrawn.

Oh and both DD and her boyfriend (who's at a different US university) will be doing all their lectures online this year.

I totally agree. I work in a university and I think it will be a nightmare. I can't understand why no one is talking about it. Yes students are adults but with the best will in the world it's not possible to socially distance with thousands of people on one campus. It just isn't.

My DD’s close friends at her Scottish university - second year - are all living at home because they can’t afford the stratospheric cost of the accommodation.

My son had just started Uni in Australia when Covid kicked in. He had a few weeks of classes then all classes went on-line. He completed his first semester but then put his studies on hold as his course was impossible to do fully on-line. Also he didn't fancy spending his first year at home, on his own, looking at a screen. He got himself a supermarket job and is hoping to be able to pick up his next semester in February, when he should have been starting his second year (two semesters a year here) But who knows what will happen?

I think a lot of universities will end up sending most students home again as in the US.
I'm going to be starting a degree in September and was going to defer a year but I'm allowed to do my first year entirely from home. As a mature student this suits me fine but I feel so sorry for the young ones who are going to be missing out on their first proper university experience.

My DD going back for her second year in a couple of weeks, into a house share off campus. I’m confident the Uni will use best efforts to organise things on campus to feel as normal as it is in the “outside world” in terms of access to library, operation of the campus supermarket and coffee shops etc. All the students are used to masks, takeaway food and social distancing now. I know she and her housemates are on the sensible end of the spectrum in terms of behaviour and risk appetite and will no doubt go to pubs and gatherings as they have been for the past 6 months at home. The Uni is in a v low risk area of the country.

I can’t help feeling thankful she is not going into Halls however. I can’t imagine how anyone is gonna to police movement between flats/bubbles - the kids will understandably be giddy about being away from home. I can foresee a great deal of conflict between flat mates with different attitudes to risk. There’s always a great deal of movement between flats in the first term as clashes happen - how will that work within bubbles? With little or no social events or societies happening and kids watching online lectures in their rooms I can predict a lot of loneliness for the less confident students who can’t be brought out of their shell by participation in clubs etc.

I think people under estimate that students paying a fortune for their studies won’t want to mess it up and be all sent home. Let’s see what happens and wish them well. This year has been through enough.

The universities themselves have all sorts of procedures in place (remote lecture delivery, limited library access, distanced tutorials, labs).

What they can't of course manage is what those students do in the evenings. Sit in their room/bubble every night? Or wander around the local area - parks, pubs, restaurants etc.

Just think about it for a minute - we've been asked to stay local, keep to small groups, limit numbers of households. In three weeks time over half a million young people will be moving city and creating new households. Most will have parents travelling with them, then retiring back. With the best will in the world half a million people moving house on the same day cannot avoid an increase in cases.

@titchy but they are not all moving in on the same day. For first years y now have to book a time and date and have an hour slot to move in. You can bring one person with you.
The students are then allocated a bubble (or living circle). They can meet others as per the rules so outside and in small groups. We've not heard about teaching yet but mostly on line with practical sessions in person. I expect the students they do these with may also be in their living circle.
It's not perfect but seems to me a lot of thought has gone into it.
For those going back to student houses they tend to stagger returns anyway. And mine drives herself.

I think there might have been considerable transmission within the student population early in the pandemic, when people thought that community transmission wasn't really happening in UK and were only testing travellers from China and immediate contacts of travellers

That aside, many students will have settled their 20/21 accommodation before lockdown and it will not necessarily be by course. Lectures may well be online, and each course and department will have its own procedures for safer small group working and access to labs etc.

Social life will be one huge garden party until the weather closes in.

Sports clubs will function pretty well, even with few/no fixtures, because each sport will have a governing body setting out rules to follow. And for the social side - garden parties.

It'll be the other societies, which don't have any parallel national organisations whose Covid policies they can readily nick, that might struggle. But I guess NUS might have some standard guidelines they could use as a starting point.

Student mating rituals will be the thing that sees the greatest change, I suspect.

I think we should be testing as many freshers as possible and asking them once they have a negative test to stay at home until they go.

[quote mumsneedwine]@titchy but they are not all moving in on the same day. For first years y now have to book a time and date and have an hour slot to move in. You can bring one person with you.
The students are then allocated a bubble (or living circle). They can meet others as per the rules so outside and in small groups. We've not heard about teaching yet but mostly on line with practical sessions in person. I expect the students they do these with may also be in their living circle.
It's not perfect but seems to me a lot of thought has gone into it.
For those going back to student houses they tend to stagger returns anyway. And mine drives herself. [/quote]
Ok maybe not the same day. But the same two or three weeks. Not blaming students here at all btw.

Just asking people to think about the impact of half a million people moving from one part of the country to another in a very short timeframe. Some into a lockdown area. Some out of a lockdown area. Some from one lockdown area to another.

DS (first year) has a timed slot for moving in. Not mentioned that only 1 person can help, although that makes sense ~ will have to check.

His course is not confined to 1 accommodation block due to particular needs. They have taken out some of the chairs in the common room 🤣 Not sure that will make a difference.

Lots of online learning, for eg. Labwork they have to book ahead. Freshers week is outdoors. There's probably other stuff about bubbles we haven't been told yet.

They have all embraced social media to get to know each other from a distance.

I think that the virus will spread. Even if only 20% of freshers decide to break rules and have big gatherings than the virus will spread.

The good thing like many posters have said is

1. Young people do not get it badly

1. Many will not visit elderly