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Original poster

Parents are the blockage at schools re-opening, not teaching unions

386 replies

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2020 10:32

The government has spent months demonising teaching unions and blaming them for blocking schools re-opening, including in June when it was actually the government’s own guidelines that prevented the further re-opening of primary schools.

This has left them in a bit of a pickle because schools are re-opening in September, the unions aren’t blocking it, there are no plans for teacher strikes, but the latest survey data from the ONS says that only 90% of parents are fairly or very likely to send their kids back. If the data is similar to back in June, better off parents are more likely to send their kids back, and more disadvantaged families are less likely.

So the government are now running a campaign aimed at parents, putting out articles across all newspapers. The Chief Medical Officers have dutifully said that schools are safe. And the responses are ‘see, schools need to reopen, our kids are being thrown under the bus’. The message is being read the wrong way. It’s being read as being targeted at teachers and unions who it is supposed are stopping schools opening, and not at parents who don’t want to send their kids back.

And this is the government’s fault. Because they have spent months creating a fake war, they have dropped the ball on a real issue - creating safer schools that parents are happy to send their kids back to.

OP posts:
Parker231 · 23/08/2020 15:49

Not sure what posters think working parents can have as a plan B. Available childcare is limited or non existent, grandparents are working, shielding, don’t live local, not alive, live in another country. Basically if schools close a working parent then can’t turn up for work so staff shortages in other schools, hospitals, shops, transport, police etc.

canigooutyet · 23/08/2020 15:50

Wow so before CV if kids were in but most of the class out, where did those go? Times when the teacher has been off and there's no spare staff to cover? School trips residential or not etc?

Every school I sent mine to, those kids would be put into other classrooms for the duration. Think it used to happen when I was in school as well, trying to remember now lol.

MarshaBradyo · 23/08/2020 15:51

Surely it's these things that parents should start planning for now just on the off chance they do happen.

One thing I’ve learnt from having to find ad hoc cc is that the people you pay to do it can’t wait around for a maybe. They need to know if they will get paid or not. There’s no point in ringing around and saying can you be free just in case.

Hercwasonaroll · 23/08/2020 15:52

Most kids being out is such a rare occurrence it would usually be planned for. Covid is completely different. Of course if the bubble has more than 2 cases, closure and isolation will be required until tests have happened. However that will be the whole bubble, not a few kids left in school.

It's quickly becoming apparent your knowledge of schools is limited.

Appuskidu · 23/08/2020 15:53

If we end up with a hybrid teaching model for part of next year, like many other countries are doing, employers will have to continue to be flexible-like they have been over lockdown, people will need to continue to WFH and non-attendance at school will not be fined.

canigooutyet · 23/08/2020 16:03

Those plans B will be the other parents also making sacrifices (obviously not single parents who are really fucked), mingling with two households within the guidelines.

Yes depending on my circumstances I would have to give up my job again. If it was one where I was wfh. I would have negotiated part-time office and hope for it to be accepted and try and find a way for it to work. I would have taken advantage if possible of the two houses mixing within the guidelines. I would have poured over them to find solutions for my circumstances.

If the school/class closes down what can they do? Nothing. They haven't got the money to put into learning away from school. Yes I am aware various child related facilities closed, same thing no money. Had any of these services out there been invested in properly some type of normality might have been doable. We know this isn't going to happen.

It will be the actions of parents through dosing up with calpol etc that will cause things to close down. It will be from parents not having back up plans for if they are ill etc, that will cause them to close because they try and send them back in too early.

Remember it was another parent that sent their child in what stomach bug, chicken pox or whatever and some will have been more than aware. Those parents aren't suddenly going to have an epiphany about their actions.

canigooutyet · 23/08/2020 16:07

@Hercwasonaroll

Most kids being out is such a rare occurrence it would usually be planned for. Covid is completely different. Of course if the bubble has more than 2 cases, closure and isolation will be required until tests have happened. However that will be the whole bubble, not a few kids left in school.

It's quickly becoming apparent your knowledge of schools is limited.

I also mentioned the whole bubble will need to isolate and that normally they would be intermingled with other classes. You questioned this and I answered this in relation to normal policy as I assumed this is what you were questioning.

I also mentioned how the child will be isolated in the school if they are ill.

BadAbbot · 23/08/2020 16:10

There’s a huge amount of can’t do attitude over a plan b. The truth is the government could have sorted this and come up with solutions. Italy hired thousands of extra teachers and buildings to allow social distancing. Part time furlough could help families. As could teaming schools with childcare providers to offer childcare within the same bubbles as school. I’m sure there are many other imaginative options the government could have come up with instead of stubborn business as usual (Which will lead to unpredictable disruption for all of us working parents).

BadAbbot · 23/08/2020 16:14

Also realise some people seem to basically be saying teachers should quit their jobs if they don’t like it but I don’t want to quit mine. A little empathy for each and working together would be better at this time.
Remember that day in January when we l said Be Kind.

BadAbbot · 23/08/2020 16:15

(I don’t think anyone should have to quit their jobs to be clear).

Parker231 · 23/08/2020 16:17

I imagine as many teachers are also parents they will be the same position as other working parents in having to decide how to keep their job when they aren’t able to work as their DC are having to be off school.

Hercwasonaroll · 23/08/2020 16:21

I also mentioned the whole bubble will need to isolate and that normally they would be intermingled with other classes.

There has never been a pandemic in school before, so no they wouldn't "normally" be put with other classes. I have no idea why you think this would be the case. If the bubble shuts, it shuts.

Hardbackwriter · 23/08/2020 16:32

@Parker231

I imagine as many teachers are also parents they will be the same position as other working parents in having to decide how to keep their job when they aren’t able to work as their DC are having to be off school.
I'm saying this with caution because it'll go down badly - and I'm saying this as a(nother kind of) public sector worker married to a teacher - but they aren't in the same level of jeopardy as a lot of low-paid, private sector workers and I do find the lack of recognition of this frustrating. I'm very aware that a privilege that DH and I have as workers in unionised, public sector organisations is that we are treated much better than a lot of workers, to an extent that I think a lot of middle-class people don't recognise. Both DH's work and mine were pretty understanding about it when we were working at home around childcare, and that probably would be an option again - a shit one, but an option. Senior management might be very unpleasant about it but the procedures for sacking a teacher, including for absence, offer a lot more protection that many more vulnerable workers get. If DH rings in to say that DS is ill 'too often' he'll get sighed at, and it's probably not good for his long-term prospects, but we don't have the fear that he'll be summarily sacked that would be very real for a lot of workers - particularly zero hours and minimum-wage workers. That's not to say that we're not worried about what happens if it becomes long-term but I think it's wilfully blind to say that it's the same for everyone; some types of workers - usually the lowest paid, so with the least capacity to cope if they do lose their job - are much more vulnerable than others.
motherrunner · 23/08/2020 16:33

@Parker231

I imagine as many teachers are also parents they will be the same position as other working parents in having to decide how to keep their job when they aren’t able to work as their DC are having to be off school.
Too true. I have a child in an infant school, a child in a junior school and me teaching all years from 7-13 except from 12. Lots of isolation on the cards!

Teachers are part of the working population and predominantly female.

You maybe thinking ‘well my kids are primary, they won’t be effected me but they maybe taught by older teachers, or have peers where their parents are teachers (like me and DH), or have siblings in secondary. I can say there I no SD in high s CNN oops despite the risk assessments - I’ve been teaching 20 years. I know!

Anyway, back to the point. I am an 2.4 family with 2 teacher high school parents in different schools with kids in different schools. Hopefully we won’t become too ill but good luck finding cover for all the time we have to take off.

thatone · 23/08/2020 16:35

It is a huge problem that the government has lost all credibility. There is a lot of mistrust around their motivations and their integrity. We need a lot more transparency over how they are using regional data to inform decisions and to stop talking about school as some sort of 'moral imperative' and to stop.shutting down all discussions. We also need, as others have said, a solid plan B. It is bonkers that at this point this is not even being discussed.

Parker231 · 23/08/2020 16:36

Hardback - if your DC has to be off school because of a Covid case in their class and your DH then needs to be off work to look after them, I assume his class would also be at home due to a missing teacher? Does it mean unpaid leave for your DH? (I work in the private sector).

MarshaBradyo · 23/08/2020 16:36

Teachers are part of the working population and predominantly female

This and the rest of this post is an issue for part time schooling. If it is part time for all it causes issues for those that can’t keep working as teachers as well as other jobs.

So it’s not a great solution. KW provision was childcare and not a good educational solution.

Nellodee · 23/08/2020 16:42

@Hardbackwriter, you're absolutely right. However, the fact that low paid workers' jobs are more vulnerable to redundancy due to multiple absences is a problem that needs to be laid directly at Sunak's feet, not teachers. We need people to stay home if they are sick. Teachers can't solve this problem. This isn't a teachers v everyone else issue, this is an everyone v the chancellor issue.

Hardbackwriter · 23/08/2020 16:44

@Parker231

Hardback - if your DC has to be off school because of a Covid case in their class and your DH then needs to be off work to look after them, I assume his class would also be at home due to a missing teacher? Does it mean unpaid leave for your DH? (I work in the private sector).
DH is a secondary school teacher, so it would mean cover being organised internally. If a point came when they had too many teachers off they'd have to send students home though - they came quite close to needing to do this just before lockdown. In his school he would be paid, just as he always has been when he's called in to work and said he's not coming in because DS is ill and not able to go to nursery.
Oldbagface · 23/08/2020 16:57

Supermarkets and schools are not comparable. Customers ar pretty much in and out. Fair enough staff are not. But schools are very different. Staff and students in each day for six hours five days a week in close proximity. Totally different.

Hercwasonaroll · 23/08/2020 16:59

We've been told unpaid leave for kids isolating, but paid if we ourselves need to isolate.

I'm a teacher and do appreciate the job security.

monkeytennis97 · 23/08/2020 17:02

@motherrunner

DH and I are NEU and have received no communication re petition/striking etc like precious posters communication has been in regards to examinations.

I call bull 💩

Snap. DH and I are NEU. Nothing on boycott or strikes at all.
LatteLover12 · 23/08/2020 17:03

The NEU are categorically not balloting for strike action.

Hardbackwriter · 23/08/2020 17:04

@Hercwasonaroll

We've been told unpaid leave for kids isolating, but paid if we ourselves need to isolate.

I'm a teacher and do appreciate the job security.

I think it does vary by school, and we're particularly lucky because DH's school is always at the more generous end with things like this.
MarshaBradyo · 23/08/2020 17:09

In his school he would be paid, just as he always has been when he's called in to work and said he's not coming in because DS is ill and not able to go to nursery.

If he has to stay home because a school is shut and there was no cover he would be paid but parents in same position due to no class wouldn’t always be in same boat.

It is generous, the stress really does get passed on though if it happens.