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Greater Manchester Police broke up a child’s birthday party

305 replies

Redolent · 22/08/2020 21:35

They’ve been busy recently...

#UPDATE | Officers attended a property in #Swinton where 3 families were celebrating a child's birthday in a private garden. The homeowner has been issued with a fixed penalty notice.

——

The rest of their Twitter exploits:

mobile.twitter.com/gmpolice

Draconian or justified?

OP posts:
HeresMe · 25/08/2020 08:54

Police have been undermanned for years. No one cared as long as taxes stay low. Unless they can magically bus in officers from other areas during the funeral they can't do shit about large groups. They have already had officers injured by missiles breaking up house parties

So it's acceptable to go after small groups but not big groups, one rule for one not for others. Seems cowardly to me.

walksen · 25/08/2020 09:06

It's not about courage it is what can be achieved. Say you're on a school trip you don't put one person in charge of 200 kids do you. Usually it has to be at least 1 staff member to 20 kids.

Countries with bigger armies break international law when it suits them because no one can do much about it.
Don't forget the police have a duty of care to their officers. You think 10 officers can arrest 300 people?

Graciebobcat · 25/08/2020 09:38

The worst thing about this apart from breaking up a child's birthday party, fucking slow hand clap is the portrayal of certain areas and people as lawless rule-breakers.

The reason for spikes in certain areas is because they are heavily populated and mostly contain lots of working class people who have to go out of the fucking house to work

Byallmeans · 25/08/2020 09:40

@Graciebobcat

The worst thing about this apart from breaking up a child's birthday party, fucking slow hand clap is the portrayal of certain areas and people as lawless rule-breakers.

The reason for spikes in certain areas is because they are heavily populated and mostly contain lots of working class people who have to go out of the fucking house to work

This! ^^^
Kazzyhoward · 25/08/2020 10:46

@HeresMe

Police have been undermanned for years. No one cared as long as taxes stay low. Unless they can magically bus in officers from other areas during the funeral they can't do shit about large groups. They have already had officers injured by missiles breaking up house parties

So it's acceptable to go after small groups but not big groups, one rule for one not for others. Seems cowardly to me.

Police have been "selective" as to who they go after for decades - it's nothing new. Back in the 80s when I was in the police for a short time, we were specifically instructed not to go into certain council estates or certain caravan sites unless it was for the most serious of offences, i.e. murder or GBH. Traffic offences, low level burglary, minor assaults, etc were "left off the books" if the suspect was of a certain minority group. It was one of the reasons that I quickly decided a police career wasn't for me!
BwanaMakubwa · 25/08/2020 10:47

The police were talking about this yesterday. It was 8pm, the kids weren't really in evidence any more, it was parents sitting around drinking which is why they decided to issue the fine.

Kazzyhoward · 25/08/2020 10:47

@Graciebobcat

The worst thing about this apart from breaking up a child's birthday party, fucking slow hand clap is the portrayal of certain areas and people as lawless rule-breakers.

The reason for spikes in certain areas is because they are heavily populated and mostly contain lots of working class people who have to go out of the fucking house to work

How does that explain why there are no spikes in some densely populated areas with one demographic but lots of spikes in a similarly densely populated area with a different demographic???
Kazzyhoward · 25/08/2020 10:48

@walksen

Police have been undermanned for years. No one cared as long as taxes stay low. Unless they can magically bus in officers from other areas during the funeral they can't do shit about large groups. They have already had officers injured by missiles breaking up house parties.

The only way they can realistically stop large gathering like this is with the army and no one will accept that.

Or they could stop the "family friendly hours" culture that means police stations are full Mon-Fri 9-5 and deserted in the evenings and weekends!
EducatingArti · 25/08/2020 10:56

@PJ6M

I personally have followed the rules and tried to take reasonable precautions all along.

But this is clearly completely fucking insane.

These families could have each booked their own table at a restaurant and sat in the same room together, at the same time, and it would have been completely legal.

That's not the fault of the police. But surely there were more serious crimes occurring at the time than a little kids birthday garden party. 😂

Personally I'd tear up the fine, throw it in the bin and tell the arseholes I'd see them in court if the reckon they can get a prosecution out of it.

Booking different tables in a restaurant would not have been legal. Here in Greater Manchester you are not allowed to meet other households in pubs and restaurants, even at a social distance.
GabriellaMontez · 25/08/2020 11:00

@BwanaMakubwa

The police were talking about this yesterday. It was 8pm, the kids weren't really in evidence any more, it was parents sitting around drinking which is why they decided to issue the fine.
3 families in a garden on summer's evening.

They are pathetic to try and spin that because it was 8pm they should bust them for it.

Meanwhile on the streets of Rusholme...

GabriellaMontez · 25/08/2020 11:04

@EducatingArti

But you can still book 3 tables next to each other in the same restaurant. Though you're right you cant meet...

BwanaMakubwa · 25/08/2020 11:10

Gabriella
I don't get your justification of this. 3 families are not allowed to gather on a Summer's evening in Gtr MCR right now, as well they knew.
Just because other people are flouting the rules and getting away with it doesn't make it ok.
My mother turns 80 tomorrow. I (and my kids) alone of my family will not be there because I live in a part of the country where I am not allowed to travel to visit another person's house ATM. I have seen her once since Christmas. It's fucking heartbreaking. And people like these wankers breaking rules because they apparently don't apply to them are just as bad as the teenagers raving. Worse, because the teens at least acknowledge they are breaking the rules but they are young and selfish whereas adults with families are meant to be responsible.

So forgive me for not accepting your minimisation of 3 families on a Summer evening. No one went to the loo, I suppose, and the kids didn't go inside to play together by 8pm...

WWRU · 25/08/2020 11:29

@LadyofTheManners

Yet a wedding with over 100 in a lockdown area meant no fines Seems like the police pick and choose who to fine.
The North West covers a large area and different police forces. Weddings in Oldham, restaurants in Blackburn and gardens in Swinton will be being dealt with by different institutions essentially.

The Chief of GMP explained the position on the child's birthday party (and offered the figure of under twenty fines for over a hundred events to be dispersed) because it was less about a couple of young children having jelly and ice cream outside in the afternoon, with adults maintaining distance, but an excuse for a gathering that went on late, involved alcohol and meant adults were not minimising any risk. He explained that another example involved a terminally ill child, which was treated completely differently.

They've got to make a judgement. It's not a victimless crime, because we need a joint effort to keep transmission low. And it's not good enough to say that it makes no sense when other interactions are allowed. We can only afford so many interactions, so it must be the necessary ones where people ordinarily attempt a polite distance from others, not the ones where people forget themselves.

Anyway, the different laws (ie. Max two households inside across England, no mixing indoors or private gardens in GM, no mixing even outdoors in parts of Pendle...) apply, so of course everyone should follow them for thr benefit of everyone else.

GabriellaMontez · 25/08/2020 11:58

Not justifying anything Bwana

Expressing my disgust with the police for bragging on social media about this.

In the context of ignoring much bigger gatherings in the area. Selective policing of soft targets. It doesn't address the real problems. It builds resentment.

userxx · 25/08/2020 12:46

My mother turns 80 tomorrow.

Guidelines or no guidelines, I'd be there with her.

EducatingArti · 25/08/2020 13:27

[quote GabriellaMontez]@EducatingArti

But you can still book 3 tables next to each other in the same restaurant. Though you're right you cant meet...[/quote]
In the Greater Manchester lockdown rules you are not allowed to interact with people on other tables in a restaurant so it would be pointles to book. Venues should not be facilitiating friends/families booking on adjacent tables either as that would not be ensuring that people don't interact. If you happen to meet someone you know at a pub/restaurant, you are not supposed to socialise with them.

From Government website:
You should not:
socialise with people you do not live with in other indoor public venues – such as pubs, restaurants, cafes, shops, places of worship, community centres, leisure and entertainment venues, or visitor attractions. You may attend these venues with people you live with (or are in a support bubble with), but should avoid interaction with individuals or groups from other households. If you run such a business or organise events on their premises, you should take steps to ensure people do not interact with people they do not live with, in line with COVID-19 secure guidance.

BwanaMakubwa · 25/08/2020 13:52

@userxx

My mother turns 80 tomorrow.

Guidelines or no guidelines, I'd be there with her.

UserXX Well I won't, because I don't want to kill her.

I wish I wasn't in a high risk area but I am and I won't risk her health.

userxx · 25/08/2020 15:21

Well I won't, because I don't want to kill her.

Righto. You do know its highly unlikely that you will kill her, but your choice.

I've seen my mum all the way through, we are both in GM.

Are you waiting for a vaccine to come out before seeing her again ?

BwanaMakubwa · 25/08/2020 15:32

UserXX
If both of you are in GM then you could presumably meet all through to go on walks etc.
My mother lives 6 hours drive away and it's not possible to pop by for a walk. It involves staying for a few days.

Yes I know it's a slight chance. However it was presumably a slight chance that anyone had covid at the pub in Aberdeen, or at the wedding in America where 50+ of the 60 odd guests have now tested positive (and one died), or that covid would sneak back into NZ after apparently being stamped out for 100 days or that anyone visiting anyone else would transmit the virus and yet here we are being warned that visits inside homes appear to be high risk.

If my mum was 50 or 60 and in decent health we might well take the risk. I am not taking the risk with MY mum who is 80, has already had a heart attack, and has high blood pressure.
The government has good reason for specifying meetings in homes and gardens as higher risk.
Listen, I am not really sure why you are communicating to me that I am wrong to not want to expose my lovely mum to a risk here. I DO live in a higher risk area. I am careful, but I can't guarantee that I haven't been exposed. What would really help is every other bugger around where I live not bending the rules to their own convenience, just for a couple of weeks. Then the numbers locally would go right down and I wouldn't be put in this position.

unmarkedbythat · 25/08/2020 15:37

Family parties are bad, but spending money in pubs is good. You can catch and spread the virus in private houses and gardens, you see, but not in pubs or cafes or restaurants.

I live and work in Greater Manchester and have been walking around thinking what the actual fuck since the local measures were announced.

GMP are as ever shining example of excellent policing and a sustained effort to build mutually respectful relationships with the communities they serve; it is no wonder they ate so very well loved by the people they police.

walksen · 25/08/2020 15:49

"You can catch and spread the virus in private houses and gardens, you see, but not in pubs or cafes or restaurants".

You can catch them in either but statistically the data shows the former is more likely and is the main cause of the spike, not that no one has caught the virus in a pub.

userxx · 25/08/2020 15:57

Then the numbers locally would go right down and I wouldn't be put in this position.

But the minute people start socialising again normally it’s going to go back up isn’t it. It's not going anywhere any time soon, that's why I was wondering if you were waiting for a vaccine before visiting her.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, its totally your choice. We are all different. My concern is more geared up towards MH as is my family and friends. If my mum caught covid it would probably kill her very quickly, but as she said a life locked up isnt worth living. I agree.

BwanaMakubwa · 25/08/2020 16:37

UserXX : she isn't locked up. She is in a support bubble with my sister who lives nearby. She has my brother and his family visiting for her birthday. It's only me and mine that can't.

I'm waiting for our local numbers to be low, not for a vaccine.

EducatingArti · 25/08/2020 16:44

@userxx

Then the numbers locally would go right down and I wouldn't be put in this position.

But the minute people start socialising again normally it’s going to go back up isn’t it. It's not going anywhere any time soon, that's why I was wondering if you were waiting for a vaccine before visiting her.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, its totally your choice. We are all different. My concern is more geared up towards MH as is my family and friends. If my mum caught covid it would probably kill her very quickly, but as she said a life locked up isnt worth living. I agree.

If the numbers have gone right down AND there was a good track and trace in place it really wouldn't be so much of a problem. Chances of getting Covid19 would be very low because of very low incidences and any outbreaks would be stopped really quickly. It is lack of both of these that stops us going back to much more like normal.
unmarkedbythat · 25/08/2020 16:51

@walksen

"You can catch and spread the virus in private houses and gardens, you see, but not in pubs or cafes or restaurants".

You can catch them in either but statistically the data shows the former is more likely and is the main cause of the spike, not that no one has caught the virus in a pub.

I like data, can you point me to it?

You can catch them in either but statistically the data shows the former is more likely and is the main cause of the spike

Would that have anything to do with pubs being closed and people continuing to live in houses?

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