Shut the pubs now to give schools a chance

[notevenat20]

...and/or whatever the govt statisticians have worked out has the biggest beneficial effect for reducing Covid infections.

Given the fraught political atmosphere about the risks from schools opening, it seems only fair to make a huge effort to ensure it works. Shouldn’t they restrict some other major activities now to give the first weeks of school the best chance?

OP I know you said and anywhere else that can potentially be a danger, but to be fair that's most places. I mean people talk about it not really spreading outdoors but there's people off on 'staycations', there's runs, triathlons etc. going on with people with their arms around each other, theme parks, summer camps (kids could surely be asymptomatic then spread) and people want to get weddings etc back on (I'm not saying any of this is bad, I'm just saying why are people all blaming pubs?). I dont agree with pubs being that different to cafes and restaurants, in most cases I'd assume publicans and patrons are watching themselves, the big mad piss ups are in the news because they stand out.

Don’t think any other industry can be/should be shut to enable schools to open and remain open. The economy won’t survive, many more jobs will be lost and yes you may have potentially educated children but they will be suffering poverty if parents don’t have jobs.

I do think nightclubs which have either relicensed as bars or operating as bar by having no dancing and music, and any other venue should be operating on reduced hours. All should be shut by 11:30pm the latest to limit alcohol consumption and greater risk of not adhering to social distancing measures. Other countries have adopted similar measures. Work from home should continue to the new norm and factories/processing plants need to be operating at reduced capacity.

@notevenat20
People care. We are just forced to choose between evils.

Except you don't care really, because you wouldn't have posted this even though it isn't getting spread in pubs.

It's not a binary choice one or other, why pubs restaurants have been connected with schools is beyond me.

Pubs being open aren't essential to anybody apart from the people who work in them.

I've been made redundant from a theatre so I absolutely sympathise with everybody whose industry has been affected by lockdown.

However if you lose your job you at least have the opportunity to try and find another one. My child doesn't have the opportunity to find another school to go to if they're all closed.

I do think schools should be the priority.

Pubs being open aren't essential to anybody apart from the people who work in them.

Except the to the brewers producing beer, the company's producing food for them, taxis, the people working on them spending money in the wider economy. That's before people's wellbeing.

Please think about what you post. And why is it one or other.

I 100% agree that schools are the priority, but this face off between pubs and schools is pointless and stupid.

Pubs abiding by the rules should be safe enough. Shutting well run pubs will probably make things worse overall as socialising shifts to private houses which are harder to monitor. Plus jobs lost are never a good thing.

I don't think it will make a difference closing pubs, if people want to socialise they will just arrange to meet up in houses and gardens which the opposite of what we want to happen. At least in a pub there's a closing time, hand gel, tables and chairs spaced out, queue spots on the floor for the bar, one way system that promote SD even if it doesn't always happen, there would be Zero of them things if people have house parties instead.

I don't think it will make a difference closing pubs, if people want to socialise they will just arrange to meet up in houses and gardens which the opposite of what we want to happen.

Even before this Mumsnet hated pubs they always have well except when they are visiting them then people should accept that their little angel will run aboiy. Then no one should have a problem.

I've been out to eat and even these days people are letting kids wander about.

Pubophobia on Mumsnet is rampant.

@Oldbutstillgotit the School in Dundee has many children with physical disabilities and vulnerabilities that’s why they’ve had to close it - Covid will clearly present more risk to them.

Pubs should not shut. That means more harm to the economy and more job losses. We need to be able to keep business open and ensure that infection control is implemented.

This whole pub v school thing is ridiculous. The vast majority of cards & deaths originated in care homes - shall we shut them down?
There was no big spike when pubs & restaurants te opened ( they’ve been open for quite a few weeks now) how are they suddenly to blame?

The thing with pubs is drinkers not social distancing and not really giving a shit once they've had a drink.

People shouldn't be drinking at the moment if it means they forget to socially distanced but Boris won't make that clear because he doesn't want to upset Tim Martin.

But schools dont transmit the virus

@annabel85

The thing with pubs is drinkers not social distancing and not really giving a shit once they've had a drink.

People shouldn't be drinking at the moment if it means they forget to socially distanced but Boris won't make that clear because he doesn't want to upset Tim Martin.

Except, that just as with all the angst over VE Day and crowded beaches, there has been no spike attributed to the reopening of pubs.

Even if some people using them haven't complied with all the rules, the cases have been contained and managed through test and trace. In the areas that have seen spikes, it hasn't been related to pub use.

Except, that just as with all the angst over VE Day and crowded beaches, there has been no spike attributed to the reopening of pubs.

To be fair I think pubs themselves have generally been responsible and while some pubs have had to close the track and trace has been used.

The virus has not tended to spread much outdoors, particularly in the good weather. And the fact we've had a good summer weather wise has meant a lot of people drinking outside bars and pubs. That will change when we get towards winter.

To be honest if I was a landlord right now I'd be wanting schools to stay closed to protect my pub.

After all, they've made tons of changes and invested lots of money to be able to open up under all these new rules/guidelines.

In comparison most schools have done very little of worth.

I can understand people's emotions on this subjects as education has been hard for a lot of children since March. However, my local is far safer than the school I'm off to and will have a far smaller impact on transmission.

Its not the pub landlord's fault that not enough has been done to make schools safe, or that enough parents actively campaigned to make them so.

You don't need to close them, you just need to enforce table service, a 2 hour window and no standing around at the bar (or outside, getting drunk and then hugging each other).

I suspect that transmission in and around pubs is quite high but because most pub goers are younger, they're probably not showing serious symptoms. However, that doesn't stop them passing it onto people who do.

Also, if you restrict drinking time, you also reduce visits to A&E and potentially domestic violence, too.

I have had three pub meals since March. One was outside, the other two were inside and in both cases I saw people going inside to the bar for their drinks, which should not be happening.

After all, they've made tons of changes and invested lots of money to be able to open up under all these new rules/guidelines

Yes. But they're all interpreting them differently (eg some wearing masks, some visors, some nothing). And not enforcing some of the rules at all, from what I can see.

I suspect that transmission in and around pubs is quite high but because most pub goers are younger

I don't think they are younger. Maybe on a Saturday night or the student union or whatever. Generally the main pub demographic is older men.

Pub goers are all younger? What a load of twaddle. What about gastro pubs, old man pubs, wine bars? Hardly the same customers as the 30 shots for a tenner dives the kids go in (Wetherspoons)

I have just seen the data for this week in my area - 12 new cases in a borough of 330k people. Hardly something to panic about or destroy the hospitality industry for.

There's always a big older demographic in Wetherspoons as well (daytime at least when they're always fairly busy).

"Also, if you restrict drinking time, you also reduce visits to A&E and potentially domestic violence, too."

But drinking time is not restricted by shutting pubs. When the pubs were closed, people weren't working or at school/college and the weather was good, a lot of people got into the habit of buying drink from shops and taking it to local open space. Since pubs opened a lot of people have stuck with that model, which is certainly cheaper than going to pubs. Now we have noisy, drunk crowds on our open land long after the pubs have closed, and friends in other areas say it's the same there.

The police her have really cracked down on public drinking in the last couple of weeks, they let it slide when the pubs were closed but now they are being much stricter.