Shut the pubs now to give schools a chance

[notevenat20]

...and/or whatever the govt statisticians have worked out has the biggest beneficial effect for reducing Covid infections.

Given the fraught political atmosphere about the risks from schools opening, it seems only fair to make a huge effort to ensure it works. Shouldn’t they restrict some other major activities now to give the first weeks of school the best chance?

If bars and restaurants close - what about the jobs of the people working in them?

@YouLikeTheBadOnesToo

I’m wondering the their reluctance to close pubs is fear of reaction in places with low infections? There was 1 new infection in our local authority last week (population of 107,000) there was 2 new infections each the previous two weeks, 4 the week before and 2 the week before that (so staying pretty consistent since everything has opened). A few other authorities reported 0 new cases. Would people living in those areas be less receptive of closures, since the infections are under control?

I’m not disputing the importance of getting children back to school. It should absolutely be our priority. But I can understand the anger of those staff who would have their earnings reduce to 80% (again) even though there’s no new cases where they are.

The pubs were rushed back open to stop civil disorder on the streets.

Parker231

We are balancing disasters and deciding which one we want. Those people will need to be furloughed which is a disaster for the national purse.

Week 32 is a couple of weeks ago I think.
You can track all the stats in the weekly covid surveillance briefings, here
www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

If, as it seems, the big current hot spots have been caused by people socialising in each others homes, won't schools returning reduce opportunities for transmission? That will be interesting.

I haven't seen anything about major issues in Scotland since schools reopened?

Is there any evidence that having pubs open is causing a rise in cases? I imagine that having thousands of groups of 30 people (including ones who are physically pretty much adults) in small classrooms with no masks, plus 'bubbles' of up to 250 kids (who will go home on buses with other year groups to siblings in other bubbles) is going to be what makes cases rise.

I'm not saying schools shouldn't open btw. I'm just saying we should stop basing our judgments about risk on emotional reactions and moral prejudices like schools=virtuous but pubs=bad/unnecessary. People's livelihoods depend on the hospitality industry.

On the Zoe app we have zero cases in our area.

Local lockdowns and testing is the way forward but with those infection levels then I don’t think you can argue for pubs to be closed.

I was arguing for them to be closed a month ago to ensure kids go back but schools will go back and pubs will stay open and I think we need to get a sense of perspective now.

@Parker231

If bars and restaurants close - what about the jobs of the people working in them?

They apparently don't matter

Here is the data on outbreaks in the last 4 weeks: care homes still very much dominate, followed by workplaces.

There has been the odd outbreak in pubs but schools have been back in Scotland for just over a week and there’s been plenty of cases already. 8% of working parents have primary children so closing businesses makes no sense as the lower figure will be schools. Secondary aged children should be capable of being left at home and working on school work.

It’s not pubs that are the main issue, it’s people socialising and not adhering to the guidance.

@motherof2masterofnone

DH is a chef in a pub, we have had 6 months of mortgage holiday and I doubt they'll give us any more...we've also got 2 children to think about.

We rely (and so do thousands more) on the pubs and restaurants being open.

I find it really offensive when people just say 'shut the pubs' like the people who actually work in them don't matter and that they aren't important.

Of course kids should be going back to school but the rest of the country can't close forever.

Totally agree, My DH runs a pub, Dd won’t do very well at school if we can’t afford to feed her! Well run pubs are taking details for track & trace, insisting every customer stays seated & all tables are safe distance apart. If people get up & start mingling they are told to sit down or leave. I feel safer in a pub than I do in a supermarket with people (not wearing masks) leaning over me to pick stuff up & nobody telling them to keep their distance. There have been very few outbreaks in pubs & those that have happened have been easy to contain because they are taking peoples details. Pubs are not the problem

@nancy75 is it working as a business model?

I went to the pub for the first time last night. TBH it's a pub I usually avoid at weekends because it's shoulder to shoulder, standing room only, which is no fun to me covid or not.

Last night, table booked in advance, drink delivered to table, about half the usual tables and no one standing. For me, it was far more pleasant and we had a great evening but it was also sad to see such a usually busy pub so quiet on a Friday night, I wondered how they can be making any money.

Closing pubs also does not stop socialising. Where I live there are a number of commons/ parks that are not fenced or locked in the evening. When pubs were closed these areas were packed with people drinking booze they’d bought in a shop. Loads of anti social behaviour, using local gardens as toilets, litter everywhere. Better off having pubs where people can be told to behave properly!

@FinnyStory its not hugely profitable but it’s better than being closed.
We are in a town with a lot of pubs, most are doing the right thing, others (Wetherspoons) are not. Most of the customers in my husband’s pub are regulars & they have said the changes that have made make them feel safer going back to the pub & they are happy with it.
Long term like this will hit the pub industry badly (xmas & new year are basically not happening this year)

And your plan is based on how many years experience in virology?

0??

Yea. Don’t hold your breath about your genius plan being adopted or taken seriously by anyone then. 😹😹

@FinnyStory As I said earlier , a school in Dundee has been closed until 31st August due to an outbreak of Covid19

Why do people think it’s pubs versus schools? It’s not.

You can’t have people being allowed to travel all over the world and shop to their heart’s content but tell them they can’t pop down to their local. Apart from all the lives that depend on the hospitality industry financially, there are a lot of people that are lonely only ever get social interaction in their pub. It’s not right to take different sections of society and start fighting over whose needs are most important. It time for all of us who feel able to to get on with life as normally as possible and for those who don’t to make their own choices.

Yes but as far as I'm aware, it hasn't caused a spike locally. There were a handful of cases around the school and measures were taken to contain it. They system worked and children in the rest of Scotland are back at school.

@Parker231

If bars and restaurants close - what about the jobs of the people working in them?

Nobody cares about people who work in the hospitality industry. Because a lot of people on here are middle class they seem unaware that a lot of people rely on it for their income. It's not just students.

[quote Oldbutstillgotit]@FinnyStory As I said earlier , a school in Dundee has been closed until 31st August due to an outbreak of Covid19[/quote]
That was a SEN school I believe so I wondered if it closed because there were more likely to be vulnerable pupils affected.

Nobody cares about people who work in the hospitality industry.

People care. We are just forced to choose between evils.

@FinnyStory

Yes but as far as I'm aware, it hasn't caused a spike locally. There were a handful of cases around the school and measures were taken to contain it. They system worked and children in the rest of Scotland are back at school.

The news says there are cases at more than one school.

@nancy75

Closing pubs also does not stop socialising. Where I live there are a number of commons/ parks that are not fenced or locked in the evening. When pubs were closed these areas were packed with people drinking booze they’d bought in a shop. Loads of anti social behaviour, using local gardens as toilets, litter everywhere. Better off having pubs where people can be told to behave properly!

All the marches, rucks and mass gatherings in the streets stopped when the pubs opened. People will meet up one way or another.

Of course there will be cases, there were cases in the communities before schools reopened, but so far, it doesn't seem to have had a big impact on numbers.

@notevenat20

Nobody cares about people who work in the hospitality industry.

People care. We are just forced to choose between evils.

No ones forcing a choice between anything, and neither schools or pubs and restaurants are evils! There are no guarantees that closing pubs will make school safer or vice versa, it’s just a theory.

There is more to life than avoiding this virus, and keeping things closed can have as much negative impact on individual lives. We should not be actively creating division between different part sic society.