Would you be willing to be put under house arrest in order to save lives?

[Treesofwood]

Just that really. Would you be willing to go to prison to save lives? Would you be willing to give up your children's right to an education to save lives? This whole situation brings up many philosophical questions for me, and my theoretical response is not actually the sane as my response when faced with the reality.

it's interesting that selfishness apparently only works one way

Absolutely. For example, I haven’t heard any conversations suggesting that the older, asset rich, wealthy section of society we’ve been protecting, contribute financially to help those who have lost jobs, in danger of losing homes and will be picking up the tab for all this public spending for decades.

As a family we have shielded from the beginning of March to protect DH, we've been able to do so because of the effort of people living their lives and going to work to help us get everything we need. I'm so grateful for this from the staff and delivery people at Tesco, the people who've volunteered to pick up medication , the NHS staff who've carried on so dh could keep up treatment and our employers that have enabled us to work from home and keep a roof over our heads.
Locking everyone up for weeks on end again is no answer and in the long run everyone will suffer (apart from the very wealthy)

Having said that if we all make small sacrifices, mask wearing and distancing when needed and protecting the very vulnerable there's no reason as a society that we shouldn't all crack on with life.

And I’ve noticed that the most self-obsessed people in this whole crisis are the covid nutters who seem to want the whole world (except all the services they need to keep living in their cosy bubble) to stop to lessen a small risk to them.

There is a hardcore of them on Mumsnet who keep calling everyone else selfish but these people would happily throw young people and their futures under a bus (figuratively not literally in case some pedant jumps in).

"I am not prepared to trade lives for jobs"

The only people who say this nonsense are people are financially secure and don't rely on their job to live. Is losing my job and my home and letting my children go hungry preferable to "saving lives"? No!
It amazes me that people are happy to see people at risk of other things, just not covid!

Completely agree. Apparently schools shouldn't reopen until it is 'safe to do so'. Whatever that means. Never been safe as far as I was aware!

But who's safety do they really mean? Certainly not the vast majority of students and teachers. It's crazy

@Holyrivolli

And I’ve noticed that the most self-obsessed people in this whole crisis are the covid nutters who seem to want the whole world (except all the services they need to keep living in their cosy bubble) to stop to lessen a small risk to them.

There is a hardcore of them on Mumsnet who keep calling everyone else selfish but these people would happily throw young people and their futures under a bus (figuratively not literally in case some pedant jumps in).

Totally. A few months ago there was one particularly prolific poster who was on every Covid thread berating everyone for their selfishness but actually their posts made them come across as the most incredibly selfish, uncaring, callous person on the thread, much more selfish and heartless than any of the people I saw denying the extent of the problem. It was ironic to say the least.

@Holyrivolli

And I’ve noticed that the most self-obsessed people in this whole crisis are the covid nutters who seem to want the whole world (except all the services they need to keep living in their cosy bubble) to stop to lessen a small risk to them.

There is a hardcore of them on Mumsnet who keep calling everyone else selfish but these people would happily throw young people and their futures under a bus (figuratively not literally in case some pedant jumps in).

Agreed.

I also suspect that those advocating for everything to stay shut are people whose lives were already akin to lockdown life way before covid. The official lockdown has just given them the perfect excuse to stay reclusive; and now they are terrified about the changing status quo.

It's so easy for healthy, white, middle class, rich women to sit on their ivory tower posing hypothetical questions and likening plush homes to 'prison' isn't it.

Try being a shielder. Try being a shielded family. Do you have any idea how beaten down and worthless we feel? Can you imagine how it feels to see written in print, over and over again that it's ok if your children get seriously ill because 'we've had enough now'. It isn't you that will die. It's us. It's BAME families and low income households, it's the most vulnerable in society.

If your child hasn't had an education over the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault but your own. You were given the tools.

Stop being so hideously insensitive. Take a lesson in empathy.

Lockdown was a blunt instrument that shouldn't be needed again if enough of us accept a middle ground.

Now, some people will say fuck it and ignore social distancing/masks and some will be in the position to lock themselves away at home for the duration. The rest of us need to compromise to protect the economy, our children's education and minimise risk to the vulnerable.

If we can't accept some temporary changes to our freedoms and lifestyle then we'll screw over the vulnerable AND fuck the economy further. There are too many deshielded or clinically vulnerable people working in essential services to keep them at home for the duration. There are too many people who need childcare and too many socially vulnerable children to keep schools shut.

So we need the middle ground and for now, that means social distancing, masks where mandated for those who can wear them and following isolation/quarantine where needed. The last will be a total pain for working parents. Not everyone will be able to do it (because they'll be choosing between that and putting food on the table), so those of us who can, need to or the whole mess will kick off again.

Most people are inherently selfish.

During the lockdown I know several (non vulnerable) people who were getting online deliveries and claiming there's no way they'd set foot in a supermarket and some even slating me for doing my food shopping.

Fine, but what they didn't seem to realise or care was that some employee, not getting paid much, was having to do their shopping for them. Get your shopping delivered by all means but get off your bloody high horse that you're somehow more moral than I am.

I have a sneaky suspicion that all those calling for things to remain closed are somewhat enjoying it all for whatever reason as much as they'd deny it.

The "health over wealth" people fail to see that there is no health without wealth. What they really mean is "I want everyone to stay home and children not in school to protect ME from covid, but if all the people in the services I rely on could keep working that would be great".

If your child hasn't had an education over the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault but your own. You were given the tools
Stop being so hideously insensitive. Take a lesson in empathy

Works both ways. A distinct lack of empathy in your post.

If your child hasn't had an education over the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault but your own. You were given the tools

You can fuck right off with this btw. Many people were working heavy hours in their own jobs to try and keep the economy afloat (and fund all those services you and everyone else relies on).

Our school was useless. Two twinkl worksheets a week. I did my absolute best for my child, but no, I was not in a position to go teach myself phonics at 1am after finishing my working ‘day’ so I could pick up that slack.

@Jrobhatch29

The "health over wealth" people fail to see that there is no health without wealth. What they really mean is "I want everyone to stay home and children not in school to protect ME from covid, but if all the people in the services I rely on could keep working that would be great".

This

*It's so easy for healthy, white, middle class, rich women to sit on their ivory tower posing hypothetical questions and likening plush homes to 'prison' isn't it.

Try being a shielder. Try being a shielded family. Do you have any idea how beaten down and worthless we feel? Can you imagine how it feels to see written in print, over and over again that it's ok if your children get seriously ill because 'we've had enough now'. It isn't you that will die. It's us. It's BAME families and low income households, it's the most vulnerable in society.

If your child hasn't had an education over the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault but your own. You were given the tools.

Stop being so hideously insensitive. Take a lesson in empathy.*

Not even sure whether to dignify this.

Are you actually serious that lockdown hasn't harmed low income, vulnerable households?

Do you actually think it's white, middle class, rich children who have lost out the most?

As for empathy, just re read your post. Pot calling the kettle black?

I haven't seen anyone advocating for things to stay shut? What's still closed at the moment?

Prior to this, my life was like lockdown to an extent as due to an acquired disability; I can no longer drive and I don't have the energy for much socially so just went out to work and for essentials. I certainly haven't advocated for lockdown to go on forever but I definitely don't have much sympathy for those moaning about it as it will be temporary for them. People who break their leg often develop empathy for wheelchair users as they discover that our society is not as accessible as they imagined. Lockdown sadly doesn't seem to have done the same for those who are housebound much of the time.

@TheKeatingFive

If your child hasn't had an education over the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault but your own. You were given the tools

You can fuck right off with this btw. Many people were working heavy hours in their own jobs to try and keep the economy afloat (and fund all those services you and everyone else relies on).

Our school was useless. Two twinkl worksheets a week. I did my absolute best for my child, but no, I was not in a position to go teach myself phonics at 1am after finishing my working ‘day’ so I could pick up that slack.

All of this and then some. Dont even get me started "nobodys fault but your own" - wow!

And as for the rest of your post Violetbrit - no one is denying this has been extra hard for shielded individuals/families and continues to be so - but surely you can see the benefit of reopening society so that those who can work or go to school or do stuff can help keep the economy going? to - you know - fund the country?

I dont think its at all insensitive to say that we have reached a tipping point where society/economy needs to be opened back up.

The above was to @Juststopswimming.

@BatSegundo

The above was to *@Juststopswimming*.

Re no one advocating for things to stay shut or how dangerous it is that things are open - how about the poster who said 'I'm not prepared to risk lives for jobs' ?!

I have a lot of sympathy for the shielded, I have a family member who is very vulnerable to covid and they are utterly fed up. But by the same token, they also dont expect everyone else in the family to adopt the same careful life that they are living at the moment.

@DDIJ

Yes. I can educate my children myself. I'm used to not going out. I hated every minute of staying in my house before lockdown but now that everybody is at home my FOMO has gone. House arrest would not look any different from my life now. I sometimes wonder if I will ever leave my house again.

Do your children go out? This doesn’t sound a very happy or healthy way to live x

Yes. I can educate my children myself. I'm used to not going out. I hated every minute of staying in my house before lockdown but now that everybody is at home my FOMO has gone. House arrest would not look any different from my life now. I sometimes wonder if I will ever leave my house again.

I don't want to be horrible and unsympathetic to your children, but how can you educate your children yourself if you don't leave the house?

"If your child hasn't had an education over the past 6 months, it's nobody's fault but your own. You were given the tools."

That isn't true for everyone. My child who was initially out of school during lockdown was sent home with nothing because there was nothing that the school could provide. He quickly went back in which should have been possible for all children in that position but didn't happen.

You have to wonder why society and so much taxpayers money is spent on schools, teachers, assistants, etc, basically an entire education system for children when all along, we were all perfectly capable of educating them at home whilst also working (either at home or away from it). I mean, since it's entirely possible for everyone to home educate children, what's the point of schools and the education system? Think of hte money that could be saved!

And childcare, child labour laws and laws regarding safeguarding children. All along, we were able to leave 11-year-olds alone all day (because they're in secondary school, after all) to fend for themselves and educate themselves, too, whilst those who are older are able to pretty much run their lives on their own. Silly society, creating all these rules to protect children from neglect, adult predators, being exploited by adults. All they need is Zoom and YouTube and a microwave and they're perfectly capable of exercising the good judgement adults have to not set the house on fire, recognise predators online, educate themselves. Who knew?

They also don't need socialisation, it's not as important as adult lives at all. Their education and lives, not as important at all. Covid is king.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

Here bloody here 👏

I've said this all along.