Would you be willing to be put under house arrest in order to save lives?

[Treesofwood]

Just that really. Would you be willing to go to prison to save lives? Would you be willing to give up your children's right to an education to save lives? This whole situation brings up many philosophical questions for me, and my theoretical response is not actually the sane as my response when faced with the reality.

I do a two hour commute every day into London. Random strangers sit next to me on the tube. If my mate had come back from France and invited me round for a drink I don't think that constitutes a higher risk than my daily commute tbh so I am quite relaxed about it

I wouldn’t. There’s a limit for what I’m prepared to do for people to whine I’m not connected. We’ve complied the whole way through - to the guidance not the made up guidance that was on Mumsnet - and life is much more normal now. I’d like to keep it that way.

I do think the super anxious and vulnerable need to do whatever they need to do to protect themselves and their families.

I find it fundamentally unfair the idea that the low risk majority sacrifice any more to protect the high risk minority. I find myself asking, what is the greatest good for the greatest number?

My friend and her family. They chose to carry on and go on holiday to France the day after the quarantine rule happened.

As you said your friend has teenagers, maybe she’s just being honest and saying she knows it will be impossible for her to keep them in without pretty much imprisoning them. Tbh, in her position I’d expect my kids to show willing and stay in for a few days, and use masks etc as they would anyway, but I wouldn’t create the row and drama it would take to keep two late teens in the house for a whole 14 days after being away from their friends already for two weeks.

So quarantine is on an "if you feel like it basis"?

Presumably Dominic Cummings's trip to Durham is still having an effect on people's carefree attitudes.

@NailsNeedDoing

My friend and her family. They chose to carry on and go on holiday to France the day after the quarantine rule happened.

As you said your friend has teenagers, maybe she’s just being honest and saying she knows it will be impossible for her to keep them in without pretty much imprisoning them. Tbh, in her position I’d expect my kids to show willing and stay in for a few days, and use masks etc as they would anyway, but I wouldn’t create the row and drama it would take to keep two late teens in the house for a whole 14 days after being away from their friends already for two weeks.

As I said my kids are just out of their teens. They managed it for weeks. So it's entirely possible. If you want to do so.

I think her kids probably did it for weeks too - but at that point we were all indoors. Now we are not

They were able to meet their friends on daily exercise. Have mixed with friends/girlfriends for weeks.

Shielding people were not allowed daily exercise.

They've only just been allowed to see people. Stop socially distancing from their own families in their own houses.

Not really the same.

Anyway, it's more their attitude that i find hard to sympathise with. Especially if it's multiplied by millions of others.

Just out of interest, did people not know about shielding people not being able to exercise outside the house?

We're fortunate enough to have a small garden. We're all adults. What about the shielding single parents with young kids, living in flats with no access to outside space?

No idea why people keep on mentioning the young shielded people as a reason to keep lockdown measures in place. 90% of deaths have been in the over 65s and over half in the over 80 category.

Reading threads here you’d think mistakenly that a large proportion of victims were vulnerable young children when very few were affected. Paediatric wards the length of the country had tiny numbers of cases and very few children died of covid despite what people on here would have you believe. This doesn’t fit into the “you’re wanting to kill my child” narrative that some of the more vocal posters are spouting.

@Holyrivolli

No idea why people keep on mentioning the young shielded people as a reason to keep lockdown measures in place. 90% of deaths have been in the over 65s and over half in the over 80 category.

Reading threads here you’d think mistakenly that a large proportion of victims were vulnerable young children when very few were affected. Paediatric wards the length of the country had tiny numbers of cases and very few children died of covid despite what people on here would have you believe. This doesn’t fit into the “you’re wanting to kill my child” narrative that some of the more vocal posters are spouting.

I'm definitely not spouting that personally. We've all had to make sacrifices. Nobody chose it.

But I hoped people would be less hostile to others who are elderly or vulnerable.

Obviously I'm very naive.

@Holyrivolli

I guess that was aimed at me.

I have never ever said lockdown should continue. I answered the question in the OP.

Your bitterness is twisting what you hear.

Everyone is prioritising their own, even parents of vulnerable kids required to return to school without masks. I'm fine with that right now. But if numbers do increase unfortunately I won't have the option of a vulnerable provision.

I have never expected others freedoms to be curtailed, but I have tried to express a view which differs to yours.

Leave me alone with your nastiness.

Swine Flu, iirc , was largely deadly in this country (and others) to children and younger adults. I can't imagine what it would have been like if the death rate had been like Covid 19 has been. Thank god we didn't have to find out!

As I said my kids are just out of their teens. They managed it for weeks. So it's entirely possible. If you want to do so.

Doing quarantine now is not really comparable to doing it when the whole country is in lockdown. And the fact that it’s physically possible isn’t really the point. Teenagers have been asked to sacrifice a hell of a lot this year and depending on their year groups have been screwed over a huge amount by government rules, it is a big ask to expect any more from them.

I realise how trivial a healthy teenager’s education and social life may seem when they’ve had a holiday and you’re scared for your child life, and I’m sorry this shit situation has had to make you feel like that.

Just looked it up and I'm wrong the highest deaths were over 65. Although the average age for swine flu deaths was 39!

I’m not bitter or nasty for stating facts. People here could be lead to believe that some children are greatly at risk when that’s not generally true even for the vulnerable. That should be something to celebrate and efforts focused on protecting the truly vulnerable (elderly over 80) but the vocal minority on here always bring it back to the under 65 vulnerable or shielded category when they’re a small proportion of the deaths.

@NailsNeedDoing

As I said my kids are just out of their teens. They managed it for weeks. So it's entirely possible. If you want to do so.

Doing quarantine now is not really comparable to doing it when the whole country is in lockdown. And the fact that it’s physically possible isn’t really the point. Teenagers have been asked to sacrifice a hell of a lot this year and depending on their year groups have been screwed over a huge amount by government rules, it is a big ask to expect any more from them.

I realise how trivial a healthy teenager’s education and social life may seem when they’ve had a holiday and you’re scared for your child life, and I’m sorry this shit situation has had to make you feel like that.

Well, actually, my ds had to quarantine for 2 weeks back before lockdown because his university housemate showed symptoms. His other university friends weren't doing so. Nor were most of us. He missed his last term, did his exams online, had no end of university celebrations etc etc.

I didn't intend to indulge in pandemic sacrifice top trumps. But as I say, it becomes hard to take when some (hopefully the tiny minority) are going around blaming the shielding. As if they personally asked everyone to lockdown.

@Holyrivolli

I’m not bitter or nasty for stating facts. People here could be lead to believe that some children are greatly at risk when that’s not generally true even for the vulnerable. That should be something to celebrate and efforts focused on protecting the truly vulnerable (elderly over 80) but the vocal minority on here always bring it back to the under 65 vulnerable or shielded category when they’re a small proportion of the deaths.

I think it's largely unsurprising that young parents are scared for their children, but agree risk assessment has gone out of the window.

@Holyrivolli

Because there is actually a higher risk to them compared to healthy children and people do not like gambling with their children’s lives.

Especially when medical professionals recommend that they take extra care due to the risk.

Picking apart parents of vulnerable children who have genuine concerns and are not asking for anything from you, why is that?

No I would not, that is why I disagree with lockdown.

God no!!! I can't get to a cancer screening, I have a teenager having panic attacks through the night due to having to wear a mask as well as a visor due to her job with no access to any mh care! (having to go private!) I had a suicical dd with a newborn with no help from any professionals! I work with very eldery vulnerable folk that have literally been abandoned! They have no understanding of what the are allowed to do, no contact with others as their main contacts are too scared they might kill them! Tried to ask for help from out Dr's but it's like Fort knox and they just passed the buck! I have a relative with a highly vulnerable child that has had all his life saving appointments cancelled, all her support taken away, judged if she takes him out as he can't wear a mask, another friend with a baby with a temperature of 39.4 told to deal with it and took 2 hours on the phone fighting to get a real appointment! 5 people I know in a very small town have died without covid but alone, our Dr's have admitted they haven't seen anyone with it at all! No cases here since March and no deaths even though I live in a place that has been called gods waiting room due to the massive amount of elderly and care homes! My dh worked all the way through lockdown as did my sil and still no one is ill! I'm happy to protect the vulnerable/scared but the lies we are swallowing and the damage that has been done and is continuing to be done will now far outweigh the actual reason we were doing this for!

[quote chickenyhead]@Holyrivolli

Because there is actually a higher risk to them compared to healthy children and people do not like gambling with their children’s lives.

Especially when medical professionals recommend that they take extra care due to the risk.

Picking apart parents of vulnerable children who have genuine concerns and are not asking for anything from you, why is that?[/quote]
@chickenyhead

Because vulnerable children are generally more vulnerable to any virus/ illness but thankfully covid doesn’t tend to affect children too badly even the most vulnerable tend to escape the worst.

For the greater good we need to work our how best to protect the truly vulnerable - the over 80s so that we can resume the economy and prevent the huge damage that this is doing to young people across the board from gaps in education and life chances.

No. And neither would my mum, who is very vulnerable on about 4 counts I think.
Her biggest fear is bring trapped in a care home, incontinent and senile for the last 10 years of her life. She's rather get out and about and let summat get her eventually than suffer that sort of old age.
And, yeah, no one gave a shit about vulnerable people before Covid. Most people still don't give a shit about vulnerable children stuck in stinking tower blocks. They are happy to be under house arrest because their house is naice and other people can bring them things and keep services going while they stay "safe".
Fuckit, nah. I'm ready to go over the top.

@Holyrivolli

I don't understand how this justifies your criticism of me at all.

I don't want society to stop, never have, not even for the lockdown. Always felt that the vulnerable should be shielded.

My consultant paediatrician does not consider that they are low risk at all actually. I will stick with his opinion.

I am not asking anything of anyone, I answered the questions from my perspective and had a different idea of humanity than I do now.

Its all cool. My kids have medical masks figures are currently low and society should be a lot more normal than it currently is.

But people are entitled to be concerned about theiroved ones with what is happening worldwide. It isn't crazy just because it differs to your view.

but the vocal minority on here always bring it back to the under 65 vulnerable or shielded category when they’re a small proportion of the deaths.

Well, yes, because they were shielding!

@Wishfulthinking1977

God no!!! I can't get to a cancer screening, I have a teenager having panic attacks through the night due to having to wear a mask as well as a visor due to her job with no access to any mh care! (having to go private!) I had a suicical dd with a newborn with no help from any professionals! I work with very eldery vulnerable folk that have literally been abandoned! They have no understanding of what the are allowed to do, no contact with others as their main contacts are too scared they might kill them! Tried to ask for help from out Dr's but it's like Fort knox and they just passed the buck! I have a relative with a highly vulnerable child that has had all his life saving appointments cancelled, all her support taken away, judged if she takes him out as he can't wear a mask, another friend with a baby with a temperature of 39.4 told to deal with it and took 2 hours on the phone fighting to get a real appointment! 5 people I know in a very small town have died without covid but alone, our Dr's have admitted they haven't seen anyone with it at all! No cases here since March and no deaths even though I live in a place that has been called gods waiting room due to the massive amount of elderly and care homes! My dh worked all the way through lockdown as did my sil and still no one is ill! I'm happy to protect the vulnerable/scared but the lies we are swallowing and the damage that has been done and is continuing to be done will now far outweigh the actual reason we were doing this for!

Why the hell are all the things just described by WishfulThinking a process worth paying for the lockdown enthusiasts? How is all this misery a process worth paying? Has anyone been willing to answer this? (preferably without reference to their own particular set of circumstances which we have already heard about overandoverandover)