If you don't think schools should reopen...

[TeaInMyStoneCup]

...what do you think should happen? Genuine question. I work full time (from home), as does DH (though not at home) and we have a soon to be 5 yo (in Sept). Do you think that we should just carry on as we had to in lockdown when nurseries closed, when we were at breaking point attempting to work and simultaneously look after him? It was shit for us and it was shit for him because I could never give him my full and undivided attention. I'm still catching up with work now and he went back to nursery in June.

I understand concerns but they don't seem proportionate to what we know is the mortality rate for this illness. Genuinely - what do you think should happen? Parents should just home school?

My two sisters and my mother are all teachers and can't wait to get back.

doubleshotespresso

We have known for ages that some young people do sadly die from the virus. But you only have to look at the statistics to see that that is vanishingly rare.

It doesn't make school staff immune to Covid so there will have to be another way (and that isn't the same as saying schools should close).

Essentially, yes it is.

@TheKeatingFive

But that will affect anyone who had to take 10-14 days off several times a term too. Surely. It’d have a worse effect in my business than planning ahead.

A short absence can be accommodated, with wfh, family childcare. You’ll be on a project, have met the client, hand done lots of the work, you’ll be more difficult to replace.

The problem with planning for long term part time is that it’s not worth the hassle for employers so they plan to get rid of you. Long term part time is also less likely to be able to be covered by family childcare.

And absences not a given. Particularly in areas with low rates.

In my case disruption will cause far more problems than planned 50% schooling.

Much easier to get help for anything planned, plus I really worry about getting called to collect instantly.

I think 10-14 daysmight be manageable the first time, but the second time could be tricky.

If you don’t think schools should reopen....can we please keep grandparent/nursery childcare before insisting on live online lessons.

Teachers have kids too, and trust me when I say that 30 eight year olds won’t learn much via Zoom while a toddler screams MUMMA POO MUMMA JUICE MUMMA GARDEN in the background.

they should open, with mandatory masks to protect the vulnerable.

@TheKeatingFive

How do teachers think it’ll work for them btw? If their child’s school is off but there’s isnt?

We will have to take unpaid leave. In my MAT only two days per year are allowed for dependents. Obviously I will have to share that with my DH. It's a nightmare for all concerned, but imagining school staff have some immunity superpower is nonsense, so it's highly likely to be the reality.

@TeaInMyStoneCup

It doesn't make school staff immune to Covid so there will have to be another way (and that isn't the same as saying schools should close).

Essentially, yes it is.

No it isn't. How do you imagine school staff will avoid becoming ill though?

I was an employee and boss for many years first. That’s what I was referring to when I said when I worked in offices. So I’m not basing my opinion of managing a team on freelance - just in case I caused confusion.

It is easier to juggle my work as a freelance if I have warning though yes. I know I’m lucky there to some degree - even if it means working till 3am ;) Although my earnings have taken a hit too from clients who cancelled because they cut budgets.

I ended up freelance after being made redundant and dh is at risk of redundancy so I completely empathise with anyone in that position. It’s just horrible. If you’re at risk I really do hope that it all works out on for you.

I’m worried about lockdown measures having to be reintroduced and affecting businesses. We really do seem to have similar worried just in different ways. I think we’re both right here really in different ways because every person and job is different.

There’s no magic answer here is there? It’s all just rubbish.

@TeaInMyStoneCup

doubleshotespresso

We have known for ages that some young people do sadly die from the virus. But you only have to look at the statistics to see that that is vanishingly rare.

But as long as you and yours are okay eh? 🙄

@doubleshotespresso. Some young people do die from covid but in tiny tiny numbers. More die from flu and chicken pox

We don’t shut schools for outbreaks of either of those viruses. We don’t even vaccinate for chicken pox in this country even though we could.

Not quite sure what you’re suggesting. Close the schools in solidarity to the tiny amount of children who may suffer adverse affects from an illness which for the vast majority of young people isn’t a threat?

Generally young people don't take chickenpox home and seriously affect their parents. Many, not all, have immunity to cp.
I vaccinated my ds.
A young person with flu is unlikely to be in school as they will be poorly and at home. A young person with covid could be in school shedding the virus for much longer.
Apples and pears

@Holyrivoli yes of course the numbers are small. We all hope this continues. But what about the communities these children live within? The bus drivers, GP's, shop workers, neighbours, fellow families, grandparents, extended family etc that they come into contact with?

Are you not concerned about them in all of this? I'm in no way happy to see schools remain closed. You've know idea what my or any other household has been through this past few months. But we all did it in the belief and sincere hope it was the right and responsible thing to do for the benefit of ALL.
All I'm asking that any return to school may be better managed, methods based on actual facts and the famous 5 points in workable place, alongside SD and reassurances for all parents and school staff. And yes blended learning as a fallback if it's needed. A safe solution for all not a bull in a china shop, to hell in a handcart at any human cost type of effort.
All this takes us some common sense applying we are not reinventing the wheel here

Suggesting wearing of masks to protect the vulnerable who are required to return after sheilding for 4 months.

I will stick with my consultant paediatricians opinion over Internet numpties. A small number of children who are in vulnerable groups.

Some people gamble with their children's health, some don't want to.

There is no evidence to show they are at greater risk of serious illness, but you know what? Ask the relevant questions, there is no evidence that they are not either.

How do you get that evidence? You force those vulnerable children in to environments where it is highly likely that they will be exposed without even knowing it, because most children are asymptomatic.

I'm very happy for people who don't have these concerns. I say live your life fully. But it is clearly too much to ask this government or society to consider the vulnerable children. Its too much hassle to protect them. Only 6 kids died that wouldn't have. 6.

Some young people do die from covid but in tiny tiny numbers.

We have known for ages that some young people do sadly die from the virus. But you only have to look at the statistics to see that that is vanishingly rare.

Having a child who has an extremely rare condition, I am well aware that vanishingly rare, is still a risk.
It is a different risk to chicken pox and flu - both of which my ds has vaccines for, because on the whole people keep their child off when symptomatic - Covid can be completely asymptomatic and still be spread, or very mild so people are still able to spread it. We also do not fully understand it as a virus, and how it effects different ages and sections of society.

Not quite sure what you’re suggesting.
Personally I would like families who have been shielding to be able to remote learn, and not be threatened with fines.

@chickenyhead
I will stick with my consultant paediatricians opinion over Internet numpties. A small number of children who are in vulnerable groups.
Has your child been told they still need to shield in September?

I don't trust some kids to behave sensibly with masks...

Catapult, smear soggy used mask over victim's face, use to "fake" strangle someone etc. Maybe I'm too cynical... but certainly some of the unpleasant elements are enjoying the ability to go about basically unidentifiable (admittedly less of an issue in school) and cause havoc.

Being middle class and privileged I can also throw money at the finding a mask to fit my face problem. Standard disposables are huge on me - cover from eyelashes to neck under chin. I'm bigger than a young teen. Reusables take a fair amount of trial and error too and at £3-4/mask starts to add up. An ill fitting mask is a distraction, lacking one might be another barrier to school attendance. Realistically you should have 3 or 4 / day (6 if travelling by bus) assuming removal to drink at break times and eat at lunchtime. Also loss of effectiveness of worn non stop... Again financial barriers to education.

There really isn't a good answer that doesn't involve changing the funding decisions of the last 10+ years!

@Bupkis

Of course not. Whose have? The government states that vulnerable children MUST return.

I asked my consultant paediatrician if it was safe. He gave me directions to the usual ambiguous platitudes. I asked what evidence there was to support either conclusion. He stated there wasn't any. Must child deaths didn't detail sufficient information to draw conclusions.

Oh stuff it then, our teenagers can't behave. Ergo we have a huge social experiment at the expense of vulnerable children's lives and well, who cares eh.

Other countries manage to behave responsibiy and not think only of themselves.

I am worried about COVID causing autoimmune illnesses, like diabetes,in children despite them recovering well from acute COVID infection itself. I think we still need caution rather than just shrug off COVID as if it's fine for children to get it.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN25E0W0

yer but we need to expose them all to find out. Masks bad.

@chickenyhead.
I'm just curious. Our paediatrician has been very keen for ds to continue shielding, especially due to the factor of 'the unknown' with his condition...but now we are told that only a very few children are staying on a shielding list at all (even if shielding is unpaused).
I am so pissed off with this situation, after years of fighting for help, a diagnosis, support at school and d's being in and out of hospital with Drs scratching their heads and yet here we are, heading into Winter expected to send ds back into school with no social distancing and threats of fines if we don't. I switch between fury and utter panic.
And no, I don't want schools to close but I'd like some fucking options.

Those that think parents should have a choose about sending their children back to school without fines should consider signing this...
www.change.org/p/don-t-punish-parents-let-us-decide-when-it-s-safe-to-take-our-kids-back-to-school?recruiter=101112805&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=share_petition&recruited_by_id=efff9590-e4f2-11e3-b271-9fe784ff59d1

@Bupkis

I get that, I really do.

It sends worrying messages to kids that have had to shield for so long, to just believe at the flick of a switch that now it is safe.

My kids are old enough to ask me what has changed. What measures will keep them safe.

None intended

Thanks @chickenyhead..I was probably a bit blunt! I'm just so frustrated. Ds has learning disabilities, and we have had to be really careful to introduce 'lockdown rules' and explain about the virus in a way that doesn't make his anxiety worse. I'm now trying to write a sort of 'Virus Safety Rules' to help him be safe at school, and find a way to explain to him that he still has to be careful, whilst not freaking him out.

[quote Bupkis]@chickenyhead.
I'm just curious. Our paediatrician has been very keen for ds to continue shielding, especially due to the factor of 'the unknown' with his condition...but now we are told that only a very few children are staying on a shielding list at all (even if shielding is unpaused).
I am so pissed off with this situation, after years of fighting for help, a diagnosis, support at school and d's being in and out of hospital with Drs scratching their heads and yet here we are, heading into Winter expected to send ds back into school with no social distancing and threats of fines if we don't. I switch between fury and utter panic.
And no, I don't want schools to close but I'd like some fucking options.[/quote]
This has been rattling around my head exactly as you describe fir months now.
I feel like my head will burst. There are no options but it's okay as everybody "needs normality".
I just want to scream and the fact that anybody even dating to question this idea is subjected to the kind of responses we have seen in recent weeks on threads like this just makes it further maddening.
When did everybody declare parents enemies of each other?

We surely all seek the same safe best solutions?