If You Could Choose Any Education Option for Sept

[IDSNeighbour]

I'm getting so confused by what parents actually want to happen with schools right now (I'm not a parent, I'm a teacher). I want to know what home opinions my classes are going to be coming in from in Sept - whether they're likely to be nervous or confident, whether they will want to SD or not, etc.

I know parents aren't one hive mind but the 'loudest voice' seems to keep changing its mind. Or I hear different ones, idk.

I'm sure there used to be a board for polls and surveys but, if I wasn't imagining, I can't find it.

So, if you're up for an unscientific straw poll to help me gauge general feeling, can you post A, B, C, D or E in the thread (you can explain if you like, I don't mind!)
A - I want full time schooling as close to the old normal as is allowed
B - I want full time schooling but with safety measures such as social distancing and masks for all who can and are old enough.
C - I want blended learning (half in the classroom and half online)
D - I want to keep my child at home all the time, home school them and not be penalised (ie, I want my place back when I think it's safe)
E - I think schools should remain closed for most children for now.

D

@IDSNeighbour I got your intentions, just putting it out there that the mumsnet forum might not represent your parent demographic and may even mislead you. It’s such a shame that schools haven’t been advised to talk to their individual communities - I totally get what you’re trying to do.

@IDSNeighbour

As ok, if the poll has been taken over by a lobby group I'll stop counting.

It's become more of a discussion thread by now anyway.

But thank you - really interesting and so difficult to see that, whatever happens, around half of parents are probably going to be uncomfortable and/or upset.

I think my personal conclusion is that we should have done what they did in the US and got parents to sign up weeks ago to either in school learning (with a warning it could go remote) or full time distance learning organised outwith individual schools. Then teachers who were worried could have staffed that online programme maybe and all parents could have been free to make an informed choice that works for them.

Sorry just saw! Completely agree.

It would be interesting to ask those who voted A what their threshold would be for temporarily closing a school in the event of an outbreak.

1 case? 2 cases? Never?

Closed for a quick clean or closed for 2 weeks?

This sentiment is exactly why A wont work, and why schools will potentially become hotbeds for spread. Unfortunately this mentality is huge on UsforThem.

Although I have hidden the users for privacy, regardless of how much I'm horrifed.

F.

I'd like the school to provide online learning option:

• have a camera in the class, so the home kids see the teacher and whiteboard as well. I wouldn't expect teacher to actually keep looking at his/her monitor to see if someone wants to say something, but would expect them to acknowledge if an online kid wants something. Each teacher could set up their own routine

This would be minimal disruption to actual teaching

• parents of online kids should acknowledge and eb okay with getting a different type of education from the school. More self-taught learning, more coursework,...etc.

Only by both sides being okay to provide and to receive that provision would this be fair.

I'd also vote for D, but in a private school this is not a feasible solution unless you pay for the term, but don't use it. Now, that I would not do.

My very cautious preference would be E. But think best solution for all ought to be D.

Usforthem are head cases

A would be my option. If measures in B go too far (masks etc) I would like to keep her home until normality resumes without penalty (and continue distance learning with school). I would prefer not to deregister her and homeschool just because of all of this (if I did ever choose homeschooling I would like it to be because of excitement for that option, not desperation over endless measures).

noblegiraffe

It's a good question. Maybe tell everyone to self isolate, close the school for 4 days and at the end test all children with a same day test. Send those not infected back to school.

If im honest I think the biggest issue with such polls is that there is no specification between high school and primary. I personally think that the measures in high school and primary need to luck very different as we are dealing with a very different demographic. Realistically online learning would not be effective for the majority of primary school age children, however we can minimise the risk of outbreaks by containing into individual classes (although ideally we would run half classes to reduce numbers and risk further, but this isn't realistic with current school sizes, budgets and teacher shortages). It is also neigh on impossible to expect a 5 year old to be able to socially distance and keep a mask on. Its just the nature of the age group, you may have some who would manage but for every one who could you would have 5 who would forget within a minute.

However at high school we are dealing with teenagers who have a much better understanding of the situation and can be expected to show some maturity (and many have). So blended learning suddenly becomes much more realistic specially once you reach year 9 upwards when children are generally mature enough to be home alone , and understand why covid measures are in place and start to understand consequences of not doing school work (although this wouldn't be the case for all children, for the majority it would if we actually had some faith in our teens to be mature). Likewise they are also able to understand why measures like SD and mask wearing are in place, which although unpleasent they are able to rationalise why ots needed.
Further more they will have already had lots of experience of wearing a mask as mask wearing has been compulsory for over 11s.

Likewise the risk of spread the age groups possess may be very different. IF children do spread less, and thats a BIG IF, then a majority of that research has focused on under 10s. However much of the research on 14 plus has shown similar if not identical patterns of spread as adults.

Therefore we cannot have a single method and expect it to work from nursery to year 13. Its utterly unrealistic. But many people have literally voted with one letter (looking at all you A's) yet have no specified if they are thinking of primary (because of course the idea of sending your 3 year old to nursery in a mask, and them not being able to be close to friends is going to be very emotive and therefore ludicous to many people) or high school age children (who in workplaces are risk assessed as adults, so how can they be a child in one setting but suddenly a adult in another - thats without considering that the youngest school leaver who is working and risk assessed as a adult may be litterally a day older then oldest year 13 pupil).

I'd prefer C for secondary so there's less in the classroom and on public transport at the same time. I'd also take this option for my primary aged school child as well.

I think B is the least the government should offer considering even those children that have been shielding risk losing a school place and their parents risk fines for non attendance. I think it's absolutely appalling. There should be no penalties for non attendance to school during a pandemic.

A, but schools should be flexible for pupils who are most vulnerable, i.e. let them home educate temporarily but stay on role. Teachers not to provide good to go learning materials, but the SoW are avaliable so those families can be in the right direction at letting their children stay in synch with their peers.

Blended learning will leave the most vulnerable children behind. They've already been disadvantaged most by discrepancies in access to the work set in this school year. If schooling is part time and children expected to keep up at home, it's the vulnerable who will fall even further behind (SENs, access to resources, chaotic home lives).

PPE in the classroom is a major barrier to communication (and behaviour management) that classes rely on for effective learning. Again it will disadvantage the most vulnerable the most, identifying those who are exempt or hindering those with trauma, or communication difficulties.

For the vast majority, we owe our children the right to normal communication, socialisation and learning. They have already sacrificed too much time.
(In the case of my y2, he was 6 when he last went to school, and has missed 1/6th of his school life) Y10 & y12 have missed quarter of the teaching time for their courses.

The problem with such polls is the same as the problem with our electoral system. There are usually more votes against the apparent “winner” than for it, which appears to be the case here.
You need another system to properly rank the options, the Alternative Vote might work OK here.

@DamsonDragon

If im honest I think the biggest issue with such polls is that there is no specification between high school and primary. I personally think that the measures in high school and primary need to luck very different as we are dealing with a very different demographic. Realistically online learning would not be effective for the majority of primary school age children, however we can minimise the risk of outbreaks by containing into individual classes (although ideally we would run half classes to reduce numbers and risk further, but this isn't realistic with current school sizes, budgets and teacher shortages). It is also neigh on impossible to expect a 5 year old to be able to socially distance and keep a mask on. Its just the nature of the age group, you may have some who would manage but for every one who could you would have 5 who would forget within a minute.

However at high school we are dealing with teenagers who have a much better understanding of the situation and can be expected to show some maturity (and many have). So blended learning suddenly becomes much more realistic specially once you reach year 9 upwards when children are generally mature enough to be home alone , and understand why covid measures are in place and start to understand consequences of not doing school work (although this wouldn't be the case for all children, for the majority it would if we actually had some faith in our teens to be mature). Likewise they are also able to understand why measures like SD and mask wearing are in place, which although unpleasent they are able to rationalise why ots needed.
Further more they will have already had lots of experience of wearing a mask as mask wearing has been compulsory for over 11s.

Likewise the risk of spread the age groups possess may be very different. IF children do spread less, and thats a BIG IF, then a majority of that research has focused on under 10s. However much of the research on 14 plus has shown similar if not identical patterns of spread as adults.

Therefore we cannot have a single method and expect it to work from nursery to year 13. Its utterly unrealistic. But many people have literally voted with one letter (looking at all you A's) yet have no specified if they are thinking of primary (because of course the idea of sending your 3 year old to nursery in a mask, and them not being able to be close to friends is going to be very emotive and therefore ludicous to many people) or high school age children (who in workplaces are risk assessed as adults, so how can they be a child in one setting but suddenly a adult in another - thats without considering that the youngest school leaver who is working and risk assessed as a adult may be litterally a day older then oldest year 13 pupil).

Absolutely. I guess as the majority of Us4Them have primary leanings whereas for myself and DH (both secondary teachers with secondary age children), we have secondary leanings.

My suggestion (F) is for secondary pupils

C from an academic support staff point of view

@TheSunIsStillShining

"I wouldn't expect teacher to actually keep looking at his/her monitor to see if someone wants to say something, but would expect them to acknowledge if an online kid wants something. "

Isn't that the same?

A

@noblegiraffe

It would be interesting to ask those who voted A what their threshold would be for temporarily closing a school in the event of an outbreak.

1 case? 2 cases? Never?

Closed for a quick clean or closed for 2 weeks?

I'm happy with the current guidance

@Cambridgechick

Absolutely. I wrote several times. I was told that live lessons weren’t possible because many staff have children at home so they can’t work at the same time as looking after their own children. It would be stressful and their mental health might be impacted. I work full time with 3 children - I did enquire whether the head was considering the mental health of parents like me who were trying to juggle jobs and teach at the same time. I was also told that as the maths lessons hadn’t worked well, they decided not to bother trying live lessons in other subjects.

I wrote a letter to the governors- the clerk is a member of staff and my letter was not passed on to the governors. Fortunately, I had sent a separate copy to one of the parent governors and he raised my concerns at the next meeting, to the embarrassment of the head.

The school also tried to avoid having year 10s and 12s into school, claiming that ‘face to face’ contact could be provided via Zoom. I challenged this and the head reversed his decision- I imagine lots of other parents objected, but I don’t know.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist who doesn't believe CV is real

@TheSunIsStillShining it's a nice idea and I guess in theory could work quite well- set task, ask for questions onsite then offsite... yeah, as long as safeguarding procedures were all followed I'd be up for that to have greater SD and less kids physically in school.

@monkeytennis97 please reassure me you're not a maths teacher

C, with 2 lessons one week, 3 the next. And videoed lessons.

Z - I want ventilated classrooms, options for blended learning, maximum 10 in a bubble, masks for secondary, good hygiene. Most of all I want excellent contact tracing and for the halt to pubs being open and soft play etc. If not home school with place held.