Is anyone not sending their secondary school child back initially?

[lastkisstoo]

I've decided to keep my 15 year old home, probably until the October hols to see what happens.

We are in Scotland. What just happened in the pubs in Aberdeen is exactly what I see happening in schools. Mostly young adults, enclosed space, no social distancing.

My child has asthma, and while not on the list for sheltering I still feel is vulnerable enough that I don't want to see him being used as a guinea pig while the government assess just how big the uptick in cases will be on schools re-opening.

I would take advice from posters who don't even know the difference between GCSE and SQA exams....

NOT take advice, I mean!

I’m not sure you will be breaking the law in England, the policy says “exceptional” circumstances”. Things are still pretty exceptional in my book.

We are still early days in a pandemic, things are improving all the time. We aren’t at the stage of let’s just crack on with it, we’ve waited long enough. Yes it’s tiresome, but that approach will get us back to square one.

My three year old yesterday was saying how she’s bored with the game (social distancing) now. Completely get her but we aren’t there yet.

Even if we are, we should be tiptoeing quietly and increasing numbers as gradually as we can.

Choice. That’s my greatest hope. I want people who want or need to, to be able to access schools for as long as possible. That will best protect the vulnerable (the list will sadly have grown) and those that need to attend.

Going in for four weeks and then closing won’t really help anyone. It might not happen but it’s a reasonable possibility.

As much as the government drive me bonkers, I think the government know that some people aren’t ready to hear that it’s not going to be normal. I think we will continue to be drip fed over the next few weeks.

In fact the covid cases are higher now than when the schools shut in march 🙄

Back in March people could only be tested for Covid if they were very unwell and exhibiting very specific symptoms. In fact, I am considered extremely clinical vulnerable and had a severe chest infection in March, I called the helpline which was the only help available given I had a persistent cough and I was told to go in to hospital for an emergency chest x-ray, all the staff around me used the full gamut of ppe, I was told to go straight home and isolate and I still didn't get a test because I didn't have a high temperature.

The scale and nature of testing is completely different now. The rise in cases over the last few weeks is a concern but the comparison with March is a false equivalence.

[quote RickOShay]@sunseekin
Thank you. We are all dealing with huge uncertainties, how anybody can judge other people’s decisions at the moment is beyond me.
I’m not ‘cowering at home’ but neither do I feel that the threat of Covid has passed.
My fil died from it in June, and it has affected the dc, of course it has!
That doesn’t mean we are neurotic, rather aware of the reality of Corona.[/quote]
Oh gosh, I really feel for you. Protect your family’s mental health and happiness as best as you can - the rest will follow. If he needs to, he will catch up.

The lack of empathy here makes me sad - I keep reminding myself that it’s because people love their kids and want to feel that they’re doing the right thing. It is not personal to you.

People just feel reassured if there is no decision and it’s normal. But there is a choice here. And the more people that are prepared to talk about that the better - some people won’t have the confidence to go against the current grain. Those of us that believe in choice can help with that.

I’m England based but Maths is Maths - please give me a shout if there is a topic you want a hand with. I might even manage to find my tripod attachment for zoom that the magpies (kids) have pinched! 😭. I can do a quick cross reference on specifications.

I totally see where you are coming from OP. Like you I have two with asthma, one who takes daily steroids just to keep his under control.

The spike in Aberdeen has also caused me to question school.

Can I just ask though, how you are planning on dealing with the school next week? The reason I am asking is the last I heard from John Swinney he made it clear we were under legal responsibilities to have our children at school. So does this mean that by not sending them the school does not need to provide online learning and this time will simply go against their attendance record?

@sunseekin
Thank you so much. You are absolutely right, judgement comes from insecurity, I know. I agree with you, I think there is a choice, and parents should be supported in making what they feel is the right choice, not villified.
You are very kind to offer help, especially with maths, even year 6 maths literally gave me a headache , I was thinking so hard

[quote RickOShay]@sunseekin
Thank you so much. You are absolutely right, judgement comes from insecurity, I know. I agree with you, I think there is a choice, and parents should be supported in making what they feel is the right choice, not villified.
You are very kind to offer help, especially with maths, even year 6 maths literally gave me a headache , I was thinking so hard[/quote]
Honestly the things I used to teach the best were the things I struggled with the most when planning it. Or stuff I’d not done myself at school.

Learning together can be a good thing - you get the misconceptions and difficulties more. The best mathematicians aren’t necessarily the best teachers. At least that’s what I used to tell myself 😂

Honestly do DM if any topic sends you 🤯

I think if you’re schools are open and children and medically able to go then you aren’t really making a decision on when to send them back... the decision becomes whether to home school them or not. If you choose to home school then there should be no judgement, it’s yours and Your DS call, but you have to be able to provide the same level of education and engagement. I personally wouldn’t be able to offer the same standard of education at home... I’d also be questioning what I’d put in the same risk bracket as going to school; so would they be able to see a group of friends? no. Would they be at the parks/shops with friends etc?. No. No days out to anywhere busy, no trips to the shops, no eating out... Anything that carries a similar risk to a school environment should be off the table to.

@labyrinthloafer

In England you will,be breaking the law.

I think this is a really bad move by the government. I've gone on about it a lot, but in Wales they have said they will not fine and that is the right approach in these circumstances.

Creating bad feeling or forcing parents to send their children into environments they feel are not safe enough is a really unpleasant move by the government.

I've been thinking about this. I can't see the LA enforcing this because they would be concerned about the case going to court. I can't see that the local authority would win, there would be lots of arguments but the simple fact school can't do Hands Face Space

@sunseekin I’m not sure you will be breaking the law in England, the policy says “exceptional” circumstances”. Things are still pretty exceptional in my book.

I agree things are exceptional but I assume the line will be they are not exceptional to my child?

I don't see how it benefits the government to fine concerned parents, but we do have a very peculiar government these days so normal politics has rather gone out the window.

As a secondary teacher, I intend to do everything I can to support children at home as well as children in lessons. I don't want frightened children forced into lessons. I also actually don't want full classes.

Schools should absolutely be enforcing attendance. Otherwise, it will be the most disadvantaged DC who will miss school- the ones who can least afford it.

Fines should be imposed by heads as not al.

*normal

@Morfin I also keep pondering it must be challengeable in court, it is not at all like the person who lost the appeal against the fine for a holiday.

Especially anyone with documented health conserns in an area of high cases, it doesn't seem it could be legal to fine a parent for genuine concern.

In UK law, education is still the parents' responsibility.

I would be interested to know what the government's legal advice was and whether Welsh legal advice was different!

@Remy82

I think if you’re schools are open and children and medically able to go then you aren’t really making a decision on when to send them back... the decision becomes whether to home school them or not. If you choose to home school then there should be no judgement, it’s yours and Your DS call, but you have to be able to provide the same level of education and engagement. I personally wouldn’t be able to offer the same standard of education at home... I’d also be questioning what I’d put in the same risk bracket as going to school; so would they be able to see a group of friends? no. Would they be at the parks/shops with friends etc?. No. No days out to anywhere busy, no trips to the shops, no eating out... Anything that carries a similar risk to a school environment should be off the table to.

The risk of going to shops /meals out the park where you can maintain SD and use PPE if not is not the same sending 1800 kids to school in poorly ventilated buildings with NO SD and NO PPE.

Do what you like, no one gives a shit. You don’t care about your kid any more than those of us who are sending ours back. Given how low rates of community transmission are just now and how cautious NS has been I’m comfortable sending mine, they have missed enough and need to br back at school full time

@SpanishPork

I just feel that's a very simplistic view. People shouldn't be expected to act 'as normal' when the context is clearly not normal.

We do all have to try to be adult about this, it is a complicated time in a complicated world.

@labyrinthloafer

No, but parents should be expected to act rationally and sensibly. There is very little risk of DC having any symptoms at all in the unlikely event that they catch the virus in school, never mind a serious illness.

There is far more chance of death in the car or walking to school.

You could also check out classroom.thenational.academy/ which I think hasn’t been mentioned yet

Surely it's better to go back at the start and grab as much teacher learning as possible before it all kicks off again, and then withdraw? He might get a couple of months in. This would then really set him up for home learning if and when the time comes.

@sunseekin
As much as the government drive me bonkers, I think the government know that some people aren’t ready to hear that it’s not going to be normal. I think we will continue to be drip-fed over the next few weeks.

I think you've hit the name on the head there, they're deliberately withholding facts for this very reason. The problem is for those of us that like to deal in stone-cold facts, whether it is palatable or not. I want to be told the bare facts, I can deal with that far better.

@Morfin I agree, I’m just saying if you’re going to be risk averse then apply that to everything, otherwise what’s the point. Because If you’re going to go to the shops for example and pick up the bottle of milk that someone else has just put back on the shelf, when said person has 4 kids in school... then you’re not really creating the tiny bubble you’d like to be by keeping a child off school. Unless you’re getting home and disinfecting all your shopping... like maybe you are... but in my Recent experience lots of parents are questioning a return to school but not actually being any more risk averse in their day to day life.

People need to stop being overly simplistic. It is this black and white unsubtle thinking that is getting in the way of proper solutions. Stop only talking about death, too. This another sign of not understanding the issues properly.

In an area of high cases with a child with underlying health conditions, there is greater risk of harm from covid circulating at school than from an average car journey.

It is a complex problem. Some people struggle with complexity so reduce things to simplicity inside their heads. That doesn't make the complexity in real life go away.

Can someone remind me why they closed schools? I thought it was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed. Not to "keep everyone safe"

This. Despite what a poster here said about cases being higher before schools closed, which I don’t think is right given the size of the epidemic and how quickly it was doubling, schools were closed to break chains of transmission when the illness was on the rise. Somewhere this has evolved into people thinking they have a right not to get it at all costs. No one wants anyone to get it but it’s here and we can’t keep the country shut down forever. 5/6 months is long enough for kids to do without education