Aberdeen ...

[noisaidellobuthatscloseenough]

So that’s us back in a local lockdown it seems with all travel to Aberdeen advised against - not sure about the shire ... Anyone else feeling thoroughly pissed off at the behaviour seen over the weekend that’s led to this? Seems half the pubs in the city, plus golf and football clubs are affected ... for those of us who have followed every rule to the letter it’s such a kick in the teeth and so frustrating ...

My thoughts exactly. I've followed all the rules, as have the people I know, it just seems like such a waste of four months

Totally with you. Was hoping to go out for a meal under Boris’ deal next week after shielding, and being pretty impressed with how our local area ‘s numbers suggested we’d been pretty compliant. But that’s out the window.
Friends were out last week and said the behaviours in pubs etc were pretty shocking. Staff totally overwhelmed by demand, and as the drink went in, the wits rapidly went out.
It’s such a kick in the teeth for the businesses who have worked hard to be able to reopen.

Does this include schools?

@THATbasicrebelBITCH

Does this include schools?

No, apparently school openings are still going ahead.

Not that I'm aware of THATbasicrebelBITCH. Travel is permitted for "work or education" reasons, and it's getting reviewed in 7 days which is when the schools are due to open. Presumably they're hoping to get a handle on it in that time?

I'm so pissed off at how people have been behaving. I'm not in Aberdeen, but everything I've been doing since it was announced that the school situation would be announced on the 31st July has been with half my mind on avoiding activities that would put them going back at risk. I'll take no Nando's over half price Nando's that I have to sit in to eat, thanks.

@THATbasicrebelBITCH I personally think it should but no, it does not.

This has highlighted a big difference between Scotland & England - I'm in England but here (Greater Manchester etc) have just been told not to go in others houses, pubs etc still open. I guess it's different when the outbreaks have come from pubs.

No schools are going to open but no mixing of households...cos opening schools wont mix households.. Oh wait

I support this 100% if it means the schools and nurseries can stay open.

Yes in theory the issues around mixing remain the same but the message that’s been pedalled by Westminster and Holyrood past few days is if it comes to new spikes in infections it’ll be the pubs and restaurants that get shut down before the schools do.

That I can get behind, no matter how depressing this latest news may be.

@frasermummy obviously! Can't have your parents in your house but your child can be in a school with up to 30 (unless it's like our school which is up to 90 - year group bubble) primary aged children in a class room, who have been in contact with goodness knows how many other people

This is such a shame, but yes, school should be open long before pubs etc. Education should be a higher priority.

So parents are going to be expected to send kids in with no SD with a major local outbreak? You could not make this up.

I'm not saying pubs etc are more important than education - as a parent of course they aren't. I'm just a bit confused as to no mixing of households yet schools are fine despite the large numbers.

I'm in England, so the pubs, cafes etc in Aberdeen doesn't affect me personally but I'm of the opinion that it's an idea to keep an eye on what other countries are doing & this baffles me.

Maybe Sturgeon won't be so smug now

Sturgeon looked to be handling things well, but the reopening of indoor pubs was always a risky venture. She should’ve delayed it for after the summer .

Opening pubs was a stupid idea. Drink people act like idiots. Open restaurants and cafes would have been not so bad. All pubs should be closed in Scotland IMO

@Redolent

Sturgeon looked to be handling things well, but the reopening of indoor pubs was always a risky venture. She should’ve delayed it for after the summer .

Yes indoor opening was always going to cause the problem... Now what other massive indoor establishment is about to open... Wonder how that's going to go?

I'm not saying pubs etc are more important than education - as a parent of course they aren't. I'm just a bit confused as to no mixing of households yet schools are fine despite the large numbers.

I’d see it more as a sort of budget. We only have so much social interaction we can allow before cases start going up again. Mixing households will use some of that social interaction budget up, so will pubs, so will schools. So if we need to reduce social interaction overall and we have less of a budget to work with, we cut pubs/household mixing and ‘spend’ the social interacting on schools.

Schools + pubs + households = lots of social interaction

Schools + households = less social interaction

Just schools = even less social interaction.

That’s the thing, she speaks about ‘zero Covid’ but essentially followed the same reopening plan as England, just slightly later. Zero covid means far bolder decisions such as not reopening pubs or more tightly regulating them.

Thus is what schools before pubs looks like in practice.

Opening up (just about anything) will increase potential for transmission. So we need case numbers low, and good mitigation in all circumstances (handwashing, and 2m distancing unless face covered).

Ferguson has been saying that schools opening could lead to an R increase of 0.2-0.3. So we need to be stable at about 0.7?

@Nixen

Maybe Sturgeon won't be so smug now

Exactly.

This is awful for locals as it was in Leicester and Greater Manchester. Sadly this will probably be life for the foreseeable future as areas have outbreaks.

I bet there won't be a bunch of flag waving English people on the border with 'fuck off back to Scotland' on their banners either.

I think we might find future lockdowns are tailored to what seems to be causing the outbreak. So in Aberdeen it is definitely linked to pubs, so they need shutting. In Manchester it seemed to be linked to households visiting each other so that was banned. With schools I imagine if an area has outbreaks linked to schools they will be closed, if they aren't I reckon once word gets round there are positive cases you'd have lots of parents keeping their children off anyway.

@GoldenOmber that's a good way of looking at it - thanks!

I guess my concern comes from, once it was announced certain years would be back in June, lots of parents started to mix households - sleep overs etc. Even with elderly parents/grandparents.

There's also the other side that a lot of grandparents at our school collect/drop off the grandchildren.
It's not just going to be children in school then back home with no mixing.

@GoldenOmber

I'm not saying pubs etc are more important than education - as a parent of course they aren't. I'm just a bit confused as to no mixing of households yet schools are fine despite the large numbers.

I’d see it more as a sort of budget. We only have so much social interaction we can allow before cases start going up again. Mixing households will use some of that social interaction budget up, so will pubs, so will schools. So if we need to reduce social interaction overall and we have less of a budget to work with, we cut pubs/household mixing and ‘spend’ the social interacting on schools.

Schools + pubs + households = lots of social interaction

Schools + households = less social interaction

Just schools = even less social interaction.

Exactly. I wish this was how it was being explained to the public everywhere, as I hear so many people saying 'well, I can do X, and Y is the same risk, so I can do Y as well'.

Whereas the point is that you have 1 'risk budget' to spend, and if it spent on X, then no, you can't do Y. Like having a menu saying 'any dish £7.99' doesn't mean that you can have every dish on the menu at once for £7.99, even though they all cost the same.

Another reason to be embarrassed by the British drinking culture...

@GoldenOmber

I'm not saying pubs etc are more important than education - as a parent of course they aren't. I'm just a bit confused as to no mixing of households yet schools are fine despite the large numbers.

I’d see it more as a sort of budget. We only have so much social interaction we can allow before cases start going up again. Mixing households will use some of that social interaction budget up, so will pubs, so will schools. So if we need to reduce social interaction overall and we have less of a budget to work with, we cut pubs/household mixing and ‘spend’ the social interacting on schools.

Schools + pubs + households = lots of social interaction

Schools + households = less social interaction

Just schools = even less social interaction.

This is probably the most eloquent and accurate illustration of what’s just happened here.

Anyone getting their pants in a knot about schools opening (in a week here) needs to remind themselves of this. The alternative is too depressing to think about, especially on the day the Children’s Commissioner for England is crying out for those in power to really, truly “think of the children”

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53650648