Aberdeen ...

[noisaidellobuthatscloseenough]

So that’s us back in a local lockdown it seems with all travel to Aberdeen advised against - not sure about the shire ... Anyone else feeling thoroughly pissed off at the behaviour seen over the weekend that’s led to this? Seems half the pubs in the city, plus golf and football clubs are affected ... for those of us who have followed every rule to the letter it’s such a kick in the teeth and so frustrating ...

I feel very sad for the people in Aberdeen who did stick to the rules. But I think that it’s too much of a risk to open up indoor spaces in pubs and restaurants at the moment. We need to allow children to return to school and the balance for that is that something else needs to give.

@Redolent

That’s the thing, she speaks about ‘zero Covid’ but essentially followed the same reopening plan as England, just slightly later. Zero covid means far bolder decisions such as not reopening pubs or more tightly regulating them.

The big problem with zero covid is that it requires closed borders.

Is anyone actually that surprised though? I left Aberdeen after 10 years (predominantly studying and then working in oil and gas) and the arrogance I witnessed on a daily basis is absurd. After 6 years I’m glad we moved away. Not to say everywhere/anywhere else is perfect... but I’m not surprised in the slightest.

Maybe they should close individual schools?

Further evidence that when alcohol is involved, social distancing goes out of the window.

I get the distinct feeling the governments in Edinburgh & London are rapidly coming to the conclusion that allowing pubs to re-open was a mistake because people simply cannot be trusted to behave responsibly when they have had a drink.

@Morfin

So parents are going to be expected to send kids in with no SD with a major local outbreak? You could not make this up.

This /\/\

It's absolutely bonkers.

I imagine a lot of parents won't send their kids in. I wouldn't.

Excellent explanation, @GoldenOmber

Have you considered applying for the job as Boris’s spokesperson?

@Redolent

Sturgeon looked to be handling things well, but the reopening of indoor pubs was always a risky venture. She should’ve delayed it for after the summer .

Why do you think this? Scotland with its 5m pop (similar to Yorkshire) has very low density of population 70per sq mile as opposed to England's 54m population/ 452 per sq mile.

It's a highly contagious virus, so it surely if you have fewer people who are more spread out it will be easier to get under control. It's like when people rave about Jacinda Arden in NZ with a teeny 2m pop (12 per sq mile).

It really is down to social distance and if people don't so it there will be outbreaks.

Do you think Nicola has handled exam results well? Those in deprived areas downgraded more than the predicted grades of those in affluent areas?

@AgeLikeWine

Further evidence that when alcohol is involved, social distancing goes out of the window.

I get the distinct feeling the governments in Edinburgh & London are rapidly coming to the conclusion that allowing pubs to re-open was a mistake because people simply cannot be trusted to behave responsibly when they have had a drink.

Agree but it's also evidence that when social distancing goes out the window we can no longer contain the virus. Alcohol makes pubs not be able to SD. The government makes schools not be able to SD. (banned from masks/half classes/using community room etc)

Sturgeon loves an opportunity to throw her weight around

If you're going to stop entire sectors from re-opening though, then you do need to extend support, furlough etc for those sectors. So shut the pubs, fine, but make sure that businesses can keep paying their staff in which case.

I don’t know why we don’t learn from other countries. Opening all the bars has caused a huge problem in the US. Spain was doing ok until it decided it would be a great idea to open nightclubs. After such a strict lockdown what a shame to destroy their tourist industry just so bars and nightclubs open.

Schools should have been prioritised over pubs/bars and restaurants.

@MyDaughtersLeftFoot

Is anyone actually that surprised though? I left Aberdeen after 10 years (predominantly studying and then working in oil and gas) and the arrogance I witnessed on a daily basis is absurd. After 6 years I’m glad we moved away. Not to say everywhere/anywhere else is perfect... but I’m not surprised in the slightest.

Amen. Couldn’t agree more.

@MyDaughtersLeftFoot

Is anyone actually that surprised though? I left Aberdeen after 10 years (predominantly studying and then working in oil and gas) and the arrogance I witnessed on a daily basis is absurd. After 6 years I’m glad we moved away. Not to say everywhere/anywhere else is perfect... but I’m not surprised in the slightest.

Wow - happy to take a no doubt high wage out the oil industry but quick to stick the boot in and call us arrogant. Glad you’re no longer in Aberdeen with an attitude like that.

I agree there is a cumulative budget.
But our budget was
Supermarkets
Other shops
Schools -primary 3yr groups but not full
A little of secondary.

Then they added in pubs and we had outbreaks in schools and pubs
Then added in travel and the kids broke up from home learning.

The masks in places probably reduced spread a little but basically anywhere indoors is a risk either school or pub.
We dont even have the budget to open all of school when closing pubs.
Is contact tracing finding people going to multiple pubs and restaurants in one week? If you are asymptomatic you are contagious up to maybe 12d. So yes think of what would have to be traced in an average 12d for me.

Schools need to be allowed flexibility
Masks
More outside time - reception and yr 1 could spend most of the day outside with waterproofs.

But even a bit of logic with schools
Maybe putting all siblings together so teachers teach across year groups more like a childcare would have a whole family.
Or at least putting siblings in matched classes so all siblings liked to A class might catch it but B would be fine.

I guess a point would be reached where all pub goers have caught it.

Also with drinking affecting immune system and liver and often evening too (not sure how much difference lack of light makes to it's survival on surfaces).

I wonder at peoples delight that they feel Nicola Sturgeon will be shamed, humiliated etc. People wanted the economy to reopen, as a country we need a working economy. However everybody needs to take personal and collective responsibility if we are to manage this. That means not going to crowded places where you can't maintain sd, it means wearing masks where possible when inside, it means acting like an adult. These businesses should also be doing their part to keep people safe. Nicola warned us all, she has repeated a clear message but still idiots ignore it or deny reality. This is on the idiots who didn't take care not on the Scottish Government, it just highlights how hard this will be as we move forward.

I'm not a Nicola or snp fan but totally agree pp.

@Laaalaaaa I don’t mean everyone, of course not. But the Aberdeen bubble is something else, I’ve never seen anything like it anywhere else. A lot of people in Aberdeen have a lot of money, and the environments I worked in there was so much arrogance! It’s probably not wise of me to tar Aberdeen with the same brush as it’s obviously the minority. But I stand by not being surprised that it’s Aberdeen and places like Soul Bar being the centre of it.

@Laaalaaaa my big oil wages are long gone and I wouldn’t head back to that working environment even for the wages. Much happier working in an office that isn’t full of alphas.

Can't say I'm surprised at these developments given the pictures of bars in Aberdeen city centre on the night the outbreak started. It's a shame that responsible pubs and restaurants will have to close because of the actions of a few that didn't bother enforcing regulations, or gave up because of demand but were still happy to stay open regardless. Totally irresponsible on the part of the punters, but also on the part of those responsible for maintaining Covid discipline and procedure in the pubs.

I've been in a couple of local pubs since re-opening and the contrast couldn't be more stark. It would be a shame if places that are being sensible have to close again simply because of the intransigence of a few other businesses in the same field. Hopefully the transgressors are dealt with timeously so that the sensible majority can continue trading.

Do you think Nicola has handled exam results well? Those in deprived areas downgraded more than the predicted grades of those in affluent areas?

Nicola Sutrgeon did not dramatically over-estimate the predicted results of these children, and nor did she have their awarded grades moderated. Clearly there's a long-standing issue with teachers being unrealistically generous with their estimates, and SQA haven't done anything out of the ordinary at all. Thankfully the appeals process is free this year, so we have to hope that the affected children with legitimate grievances can get their deserved outcomes via that route.

@EachDubh

I wonder at peoples delight that they feel Nicola Sturgeon will be shamed, humiliated etc. People wanted the economy to reopen, as a country we need a working economy. However everybody needs to take personal and collective responsibility if we are to manage this. That means not going to crowded places where you can't maintain sd, it means wearing masks where possible when inside, it means acting like an adult. These businesses should also be doing their part to keep people safe. Nicola warned us all, she has repeated a clear message but still idiots ignore it or deny reality. This is on the idiots who didn't take care not on the Scottish Government, it just highlights how hard this will be as we move forward.

I agree with all of this EXCEPT she weeps for the pubs but expects all young people back full time with no SD. You make excellent points about not going to crowded places, wearing masks where not poss etc but we can't move forward with this anomaly.

Morfin
Schools are going back with no sd and very little change because of the pressure from parents groups and certain politicians. It is what vocal parents wanted, they threatened lots and schools open as before was the price demanded and recieved. Next week will be telling when we go back. Now those parents who demanded this must make sure they do their bit to reduce chance of any infections entering schools.

'wonder at peoples delight that they feel Nicola Sturgeon will be shamed, humiliated etc'

Well it's because she takes such delight in overly criticising the UK's government, as if she's got it all under control while Boris hasn't . From the start she has used it as a opportunity to promote her own agenda. For example, slating Johnson for 'stay alert' 'what does that even meeeean' she wanged on repeatedly then used 'stay safe' herself .

It is not a competition, all 4 nations should work in unity and Sturgeon should stop the point scoring .

What was particularly amusing about the "stay alert" criticism is that France almost immediately followed it with "restez prudents" an almost identical message.

I agree about the point scoring but I also think that people need to stop criticising and blaming the govts for everything. Govts are feeling their way to see what works and what doesn't and it is taking time for people to adjust. I don't believe any govt enjoys imposing a local lockdown anymore than those who have it imposed on them.