Local schools having to shut, unfair disadvantage later on in exams

[Cherryghost]

How would this work in the case of schools in hotspot areas shut for a few months but the rest of schools open and then the effect of exams later on in the year?
How on earth are allowances going to be made?

@whenwillthemadnessend
What has happened in Scotland (and the same has happened in England but the media will save the moans about that for English results day) is a completely different matter. Basically the grades submitted by teachers in a lot of cases appear to have little resemblance to those that would be expected based on historical results and none of the previous data relating to this years cohort appears to suggest that it is particularly able. Clearly if the exam boards were to permit such predictions to be taken as factual just about nobody would take these results seriously so they have moderated predictions so that they better fit historical data. The most charitable explanation is that teachers have assumed that all of their students would spend significant time revising and will perform to their best of their ability under exam conditions and therefore achieved their best possible results, when in reality large numbers don't bother to revise properly or are effected by the stress of exams. However in reality I expect there are at least some teachers who themselves don't really understand how exams are marked and therefore couldn't provide accurate predictions, or purposely gave predictions that were inflated. Unfortunately this does mean that some students will have suffered because their individual teachers were more honest and better informed.

This will run through until April. Children will have lost a year of education. A fair person would pause and reset classes by a year. It is the only way.

Of course the DC whose schools shut down would be further disadvantaged. There's far more to academic attainment than the work ethic of the child.
If the online provision of DS2 'outstanding' secondary during lockdown is anything to go by, i.e., next to nothing whilst teachers prioritised homeschooling their own DC (and that from SLT friend), then if they shut again after September God help him and his year 11 peers.

@labyrinthloafer but PT school means teachers with children can only be part time. Who will be doing all the teaching the rest of the time? Who will be looking after all the key worker children whose parents are needed to keep the country going? It's not as simple as saying everyone PT will be more consistent as it'll cause chaos elsewhere.

[quote headshoulderskneestoes]@labyrinthloafer but PT school means teachers with children can only be part time. Who will be doing all the teaching the rest of the time? Who will be looking after all the key worker children whose parents are needed to keep the country going? It's not as simple as saying everyone PT will be more consistent as it'll cause chaos elsewhere. [/quote]
But like all other workers the teacher would at least have time now to put in place alternative childcare for the PT days.

However, when the teacher's child school suddenly closes for covid/lack of staff the teacher will have no time to plan/prepare.

Its obviously not easy, but neither is it going to be when schools start shutting down randomly either bubbles or full closures due to cases/staffing.

@Cherryghost

Mosquito I find your responses bizarre telling me what I should be concerned with! You assume that kids under closed hotspot areas will have support. That isn't always the case. Of course temporary accommodation and homelessness is a important issue I've said that, just because there is more than one issue doesn't mean we can't discuss others.

Because this is ridiculous. Schools are there to provide educational guidance. Schools provide educational guidance whether the students are on site or not. Some students have more support than others. That happens whether students are on site or not. Some students have a home life conducive to study and some don't . That happens whether they are on site or not. Some students have parental back up, some don't . That happens whether they are on site or not. Some students concentrate and work hard. Some don't. That happens whether they are on site or not.Whether they are on site or not is the least important variable.

In a "normal" year, with students on site every day, students who do well are the ones with a stable home life, parental support, resources and text books at home, peace and quiet to study, concentration and self discipline AT HOME. Coming int to school every day doesn't get anyone any exam results. Students get exam results based on study at home.

While using teachers and lessons as a resource available to them. Which remains available whether they are on site or not.

Schools closing or opening is irrelevant to exam year groups.

Exams assess how a child does at one particular time. That's all they assess, all they reflect. If a child can't do as well due to various circumstances, then that is what the results will show.

Results aren't a statement about a child's value or potential. They are a snapshot of what they know and what they can do on that day.

Employers and universities then make value judgements on things that will have influenced their performance- family bereavement, or coming from an area where the schools aren't great, or an area where there has been severe disturbance due to CV19.

@Reastie what subject do you teach?

Agree with @MoreW1ne

I feel people are comparing 'normal school' with PT school.

I think we are comparing constant in/out school with PT less disrupted school.

Bear in mind if a child gets a cough, a parent has to pick them up, take them home, get them tested, wait for results etc - and must self isolate. So your child's maths teacher must leave and self isolate if their own child has a cough.

We are in unchartered territory as there is no childcare for a child with possible covid and we have to isolate if our child has a cough/temp.

Reducing spread of covid AND other terms would help school be calmer and less mentally draining

I am also worriedthe constant worry of people going off could be hard on some kids. I'm not sure mine will be that affected by that, but some surely will be.

It's a very sad mess, really. Poor kids, poor teachers, poor parents.

Our primary school has said that attendance prior to March was below expected across the school and that they expected everyone to improve attendance rates this next academic year There's no wrap around care, teachers are moving around between bubbles, bubbles might be playing out at the same time but teachers will try to maintain distancing between bubbles. It's a smallish school of 200 with 8 classrooms and no extra space so I'm not sure how they will work things for nursery through year 6. The secondary school is more realistic in its approach but bubbles of year groups and they have to eat outside!

@mosquitofeast what about a secondary which provides extremely limited at home learning, no marking, no feedback?

Should a child be able to teach themselves French, maths, statistics, chemistry from a text book bought by a parent to plug the gaps?

My DC's secondary provided very good lessons when they were in school but the home learning provision in many subjects was somewhere between woeful and non existent. Feedback was lacking so in some cases they had no idea if they had done things right or wrong.

Before someone tells me I should have contacted the school, I did this and was told on multiple occasions that they were doing their best and that feedback was not to be expected.

It's just not possible for many young people to teach themselves from a book as you suggest.

Plus what about the passion that an excellent teacher injects into a lesson? An infectious passion which sparks a child's interest?

You are of course entitled to your opinion but in my own experience live teaching is a wonderful gift and text book or solo study is not a substitute for this.

OP I agree that some children will be hugely disadvantaged in next summer's exams as a result of the disruption caused by school closures & isolation. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that this isn't the case, and as usual the most disadvantaged children are likely to suffer the most. There has been a recent consultation into proposed changes to GCSE & A-Level exams to try to address this, but in my view the changes go nowhere near far enough. It seems very unfair.

Of course some will be disadvantaged.
Over a million homes don't have online access at all.
Many schools don't have the equipment needed to set up online homeschooling.

Many schools don't have enough text books for each of their students before CV. If you want your child to have their own you have to buy them, and there's an estimated 4.2 million children whose families cannot afford them, never mind the money to buy extra equipment, or even the space for the kids to work. Art, design and tech etc, who pays for the equipment kids need when at home for weeks on end?

Read the threads about wfh, main problem seems lack of space and bad connection. These issues won't mysteriously vanish just because it's something that involves the under 18's.

My DC's school do not provide any textbooks at all for any subject in any year. We are asked to provide them for science but that is all.

If we could easily learn things from only using books, we would all have degrees in a variety of topics. Yea we can pick up a phrase book for when we visit Spain, but knowing a couple of things is nothing compared to the understanding and pronunciation.

Leave the 6 year old to get on with blended reading, eventually they might get up but after a lot of tears.

Give the same child a bit of paper with 1 + 1 on it. What is 1? How do they teach themselves this?

Parents aren't teachers and a lot don't possess the skills. 8 million illiterate adults in the UK. 25% of the UK population have dyscalculia. Many of these two groups will be parents.

@canigooutyet

If we could easily learn things from only using books, we would all have degrees in a variety of topics. Yea we can pick up a phrase book for when we visit Spain, but knowing a couple of things is nothing compared to the understanding and pronunciation.

Leave the 6 year old to get on with blended reading, eventually they might get up but after a lot of tears.

Give the same child a bit of paper with 1 + 1 on it. What is 1? How do they teach themselves this?

Parents aren't teachers and a lot don't possess the skills. 8 million illiterate adults in the UK. 25% of the UK population have dyscalculia. Many of these two groups will be parents.

we are not talking about primary. We are talking about exam years

@canigooutyet

I appreciate it isn't comparable to this situation, but actually many children do learn a huge amount from books, at home, by working things through with a supportive adult, when home schooled.

I am not saying this is what school parents want to do or what they should have to do - but self directed learning is quite effective.

What does the guidance say about education when a school closes?

Does it say the school must continue to deliver anything?

Also are all students asked not to come in?

Because in theory the teacher is still available (well unless it’s them that has symptoms) unlike before where they may be teaching other groups. So they could switch to remote / supported learning.

@user1471439240

This will run through until April. Children will have lost a year of education. A fair person would pause and reset classes by a year. It is the only way.

But that is education back forever, you can't have twice as many kids in nursery/reception for the next two decades, so that's an extra year of childcare all parents of pre school kids will have to find as reception will now begin at 5, secondary at 12 and a levels finish at 19. An extra year of child benefit to be paid too

What does the guidance say about education when a school closes? Does it say the school must continue to deliver anything? Also are all students asked not to come in?
Our yr 1s are in a class bubble. Any symptoms of Clovisld mean 2 weeks off for the whole class unless a test comes back negative then all back immediately

I really feel sorry for schools tbh. For years all they have faced is cuts, underfunded to get beyond MS 2007, and wonder what everyone else is talking about because of the new features!! Told to basically do something over night that takes time and money to implement. Left to scramble around trying to recreate the classroom experience on-line. Well they weren't instead, care and wellbeing were supposed to be the focus.

Millions of kids became further disadvantaged the day the schools were closed. At the start the focus was purely on primary school especially year 6.Secondary school was mainly ignored or fucked over. Although they are still going to get fucked over with the 1700+ bubble.

The day the doors closed more became disadvantaged because some parents demanded what the government had stopped. Education. Once some schools said bollocks to that and started teaching new things, others were disadvantaged even within their own school.

Realistically, the only fair way would be a year do over, including the poor sods who had their exams this year. But it will never happen.

Sleeping and does it say the school must provide anything in those two weeks? Or up to the school or really just closed, no provision.

[quote labyrinthloafer]@canigooutyet

I appreciate it isn't comparable to this situation, but actually many children do learn a huge amount from books, at home, by working things through with a supportive adult, when home schooled.

I am not saying this is what school parents want to do or what they should have to do - but self directed learning is quite effective.[/quote]
Oh I know home schooling does work for some families. I've been there before myself. I had the time needed to sit with that child and help them, the others were at school for starters!!

Reading through other threads, many working families haven't been able to find the balance, let alone an extra laptop to do this. If they have to learn from home, they will still have this disadvantage of not having that needed support even if a device is magiced up.

@labyrinthloafer this comes down partly to the skill set and amount of free time that a parent has. Most secondary school children that in know have two working parents.

I'm self employed and have so far managed to juggle to help DC a fair bit, but that's not going to be possible for long.

I have a maths A at A level, a science degree and a masters in geophysics. But I am struggling to teach them maths, particularly statistics, probability, algebra of a line, physics and French (I learned Italian at school). It's really not at all easy to support DC in some subjects, not least because I lack that teaching skill, Passion and patience of a trained teacher.

@statistical sense - The process for awarding grades was rigorous: subject teacher going through all the data for the GCSE/A level period, including half termly assessments, homework, classwork among other things, it took a long time. It was then passed onto Head of subject and Head of department, who queried any anomalies. Finally it was checked by the Senior management for academics who are incredibly thorough. As teachers, we have to understand mark schemes and how to apply them. Many teachers also mark for the exam boards so have an even deeper understanding of the aforementioned.