Can someone just clarify something for me regarding T&T?

[QueenofmyPrinces]

If you have a positive test, how far back do they ask you about where you’ve been and what you’ve been doing?

48 hours before symptoms started I believe.

But shouldn’t they go back further than that to try and identify possible sources of where I got it?

For example, last night I went out for a meal.
Imagine I had picked up the virus from someone asymptomatic or from surfaces etc and so I am currently incubating the virus and then in ten days time I start getting symptoms.

If I took a Covid test and it came back positive, but they only wanted to know what I had been doing for the last 48 hours then how can they trace a possible origin?

Imagine if 5 other customers last night contracted the virus and they get ill in 10-14 days and get a positive result too.

How can T&T know the restaurant is where we all contracted it from ten days ago if they are only concerned about what we all did on the last 24 hours?

Or is T&T only there to try and prevent further transmission as opposed to try and identify any hot spots and original transmission sources?

T&T is quite challenging even when they only go back 48 hours before first symptom. At the point you're interviewed, you're possibly feeling rough and then someone asks you lots of little details about things that happened each of -5 days ago. It's a lot to cover, without then trying to go back all the way to 14 days before you had symptoms and try to remember everywhere you went and did what might be 3 weeks ago by then. Not realistic to cover all that as well. People won't remember, and some will get upset or frustrated trying to remember. Besides, anywhere you got it 2 weeks ago, those people may have dispersed far and wide by now.

I think the average time from infection to symptoms is about 5 days, and you are probably only shedding virus for a couple of days beforehand. Of course there are asymptomatic people etc etc, but most will fit into this, I'm guessing.

Given they are massively failing now, I don't think they could go back further anyway.

We really don't have a functioning track and trace system, sadly.

It’s not the test and trace not functioning, it’s the public refusing to engage

Theoretically, the person that infected the restaurant you pick it up in should then involve you being tracked/traced if they have a positive test result. So when you eventually do test positive, they're already expecting it and you'll already have been isolating so as not to spread while infectious.

i.e. Rebecca goes to Pizza Express tonight, the restaurant takes T&T details from her and everyone else there. Tomorrow, Rebecca comes down with a fever gets tested. Thursday the test comes back positive and T&T ask the contact tracing questions, Pizza Express is mentioned. You then get a phone call telling you to self isolate for 14 days, during which point your symptoms start but you've not been anywhere to spread it.

Rebecca goes to Pizza Express tonight, the restaurant takes T&T details from her and everyone else there. Tomorrow, Rebecca comes down with a fever gets tested. Thursday the test comes back positive

And I do get that but it isn’t isn’t making an attempt to find out how she may have contracted the virus in the first place.

She obviously didn’t catch the virus in Pizza Express - she caught it somewhere else about ten days ago.

So I get that everyone else who was in Pizza Express is contacted to say they need to self isolate, but nothing about the system is trying to identify where the viruses are originating.

Ie, how can they know if lots of people are initially picking it up in pubs if T&T don’t know that infected people have frequented a pub 10-14 days before becoming symptomatic?

And the same for hairdressers, the only way to know if re-opening hairdressers is leading to an increase of cases, is if infected people are being asked by T&T if they have been in a hairdressers within the last two weeks?

I know T&T is there to stop the virus being transmitted, I guess I just thought it would also try to identify any potential risk factors that may have caused the person to get infected in the first place.

I.e in the last 10-14 days have you been at work? Have you been on a bus? Have you been to any weddings or funerals? And children’s parties? And restaurants? The cinema? A theatre? A beauty salon? A Hairdresser etc etc

Surely only risky activities, in terms of what kind of activities may be causing high rates of transmission, can only be identified if infected people are asked if they have done anything specific in the last 10-14 days as that is when they most likely contracted the virus?

The problem is in the 10 days prior to that I could have done loads of those things: work, family house, supermarkets, other shops, restaurants, pubs, trains, friends house, hotel, nursery etc....maybe I just go out a lot but i assume the list would be the same for a lot of people so thay wouldn't really narrow down the 'risky places' and would be very hard to administrate.

@Justanswer

It’s not the test and trace not functioning, it’s the public refusing to engage

That is a feature of the system as designed, sadly. Untrained people with no local knowledge calling up.

In Wales they are reaching far far more contacts. I don't think Welsh people are so very different. The system is better.

I think they don't go back 10 days as they are not trying to establish where you caught it, that would be impossible to find with any certainty.
They are only tracking back over the time you are shedding virus to find others you may have infected

The problem is in the 10 days prior to that I could have done loads of those things: work, family house, supermarkets, other shops, restaurants, pubs, trains, friends house, hotel, nursery etc....maybe I just go out a lot but i assume the list would be the same for a lot of people so thay wouldn't really narrow down the 'risky places' and would be very hard to administrate.

And I do understand that too. I guess I’m just expecting it to do something that just isn’t feasible. It just feels like there’s a bit of criticism about the system these days so I was just trying to pin point what it is T&T actually does and how effective it is in terms of helping identifying risky activities and stopping the spread too.

I guess a system can only do so much though and obviously preventing transmission is what’s most important.

It's not about finding out the source it's to prevent it being spread around to others from you.

The reality is that many people are visiting several places at which they could have caught the virus and it isn't easy to identify which location was the source unless they know that someone else who was in that location at the same time had tested positive several days prior (but in that case you should have already been contacted and told to isolated). What they can do instead is note where people have been over the past few days and who they had come into contact with at each location and then see which (if any) contacts subsequently test positive.
Whether certain types of environment spread the virus more can just as easily be determined by which contacts of those who have tested positive subsequently tested positive (if for (a purely fictional) example someone went for a haircut and to the pub the day before becoming symptomatic and a week later both the hairdresser that cut the persons hair and the client in the next chair test positive but none of the people who had been in the pub at the same time develop symptoms it would suggest the hairdressers was an environment more likely to spread the virus).

Utter rubbish to say untrained staff. The clinical caseworkers who will be contacting Positive cases are NHS Band 6 and equivalent. Call handlers may be unqualified but they have training for their role. Problem is few people answer their phones in the first place which is the problem. Probably because they keep reading nonsense on social media. And so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

@Justanswer

Utter rubbish to say untrained staff. The clinical caseworkers who will be contacting Positive cases are NHS Band 6 and equivalent. Call handlers may be unqualified but they have training for their role. Problem is few people answer their phones in the first place which is the problem. Probably because they keep reading nonsense on social media. And so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sorry, but read any first-hand accounts of the 'training' for call handlers - it was minimal.

Most of the staff are not the clinical grade. Most were recruited with no real process.

The system isn't working. The % they contact is getting worse.

You don't have to provide any ID, so in effect if you don't want to be traced you can put a false name, address or contact number & nobody will know.

Sorry- you are getting call handlers confused with Caseworkers. And people are not engaging in the first place before they have even had contact with anyone. So doesn’t matter how awesome the case workers are if they can’t get to talk to people! This is probably due to being either inherently selfish or not just not having the understanding necessary. Could be due to reading too much nonsense online. I agree it needs to be sold better through the media though.

@Justanswer

Sorry- you are getting call handlers confused with Caseworkers. And people are not engaging in the first place before they have even had contact with anyone. So doesn’t matter how awesome the case workers are if they can’t get to talk to people! This is probably due to being either inherently selfish or not just not having the understanding necessary. Could be due to reading too much nonsense online. I agree it needs to be sold better through the media though.

Why is the Welsh system getting much higher engagement?

People don’t trust it, or can’t afford to not be at work. Are they asking you to isolate because you were in a restaurant where an infected person was 10 hours earlier and 30m away? Noone seems to know. Would the contact tracers just accept it if you said you hadn’t been near anyone outside your household? Can they report you somewhere if you refuse to isolate based on their word that you’ve been near someone? What if someone is malicious and framing you when you haven’t actually seen them? Can they force you to isolate? It’s all unknown so I can understand feeling nervy and not answering your mobile.

Boris said no one should be penalised for doing the right thing, but SSP for 2 weeks - talk about no good deed goes unpunished.

Tier 2 contact caseworkers, recruited via the NHS Professionals job bank, are tasked with calling people who have tested positive for Covid-19 and inputting the information on CTAS for anyone they have come into close contact with between two days before presenting coronavirus symptoms and seven days afterwards. Tier 3 staff then follow up with the individuals named in CTAS and give them advice on symptoms and testing and instructions to self-isolate at home.

Most of the calling is done by the bigger group of non-medical call handlers, who have had little training. I don't think I'm getting confused tbh., I just don't think the system is working very well.

You tell me! I’d love to know why the welsh answer their phones more than people in England

Of course it's not working. You're relying on people's memory, which is a problem to start with. Then you're asking people to give out other people's contact details without asking their permission first. And then you're asking other people to self isolate for two weeks on the basis of someone they can't identify saying that they were in close contact with them.

The whole system is crazy. No wonder its not working.

Oh, and I've been to three restaurants over the past three days - no one asked for my contact details at any point.

@Lemons1571 As far as I understand they’d not ask you to shield if you had been to a restaurant and someone had tested positive. But they’d ask you to get a test done. And depending on the outcome then shield.

The chances of getting it because of being on a restaurant are slim really.

You’d need to shield if I.e you went out with a friend and they would test positive. Then as you’re a close contact who has been (without masks and social distancing) for more than 15 mins you’re at risk of being positive even if your test came back as negative.

You still don’t seem to get it- no one answers their phones! It wouldn’t matter if Boris was calling them. They don’t want to engage with the system- BEFORE any one has called them! Why? Have a think about it