Schools to remain closed until October half term?

[stopcollaborateandlisten]

Lots and lots coming out in the news how schools will finally be re-opening - anyone else think it might get pushed back at the last minute to after the October half term?

Based on performance so far, I think we should plan for the government opting for whichever plan for schools has the worst outcome for the most people.

No I don’t think so.

Apparently there’s new guidance out soon. Not sure what to expect with that.

@ceeveebee

Because the spirit of the guidance was to enable provision of key services and enabling the economy to open up. How is it fair that a SAHP gets to send their kids to school, whereas people working full time had to juggle their kids at home? And accountants don’t qualify - they are not part of the key financial services infrastructure - but schools can only rely on what they are told by parents

Fair? Probably not, but if a parent is allowed to send their children back and they believe it's in their best interest, why wouldn't they. No one stated that a SAH parent couldn't qualify.

Of course accountants qualify: as staff needed for essential financial services provision that covers it.

MarshaBradyo

The new guidance is on the 11th or 12th, I can't remember which.

[quote Godwinshelley]@monkeytennis97 massive respect for teachers and think they should have access to masks. But you do realise you and your husband have been teaching already when the R rate was very high in the UK?

Basically the whole period after Feb halfterm in the UK, the virus was freely circulating in the population with high R rates in all the major urban areas. By looking at the deaths 3 weeks after lockdown (peak period), which are freely published on the ONS - you can see occupational risk. Teachers really weren't a high risk group (though some teachers died, being older and male increased that risk as it does for all covid deaths). Taxi drivers, security and care workers (as opposed to healthworkers in general) and construction were the highest risk occupational groups.

So there is some risk (but there is risk from all winter viruses and actually influenzas are definitely caught by kids who are very symptomatic with them, unlike Covid) but whether it is a higher risk and more than the risk of further lockdown on educational and economic outcomes (also key determinants of health) is probably not the case.[/quote]
The r rate may have been higher, but the school I work at had, in the weeks following closure, only 10 children in. By the end of the summer term, we had 40ish.

We normally have 1300 students in.

I don’t think it’s hard to see why teaching during partial closure was relatively lower risk but teaching when all 1300 students are back in, in year group bubbles but with teachers having to cross between those bubbles, will be much riskier.

@Spikeyball

Deciding to allow some year groups to attend and others not is not discrimination. It is not covered by the Equality Act 2010.

well...

Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics')
It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:

age

that's already debatable and I am sure anyone with legal knowledge from this country can find a lot more if they wished and prove that willingly excluding some children is not acceptable. Which is why some schools tried really hard doing just that.

It isn't automatically discrimatory to give one group of people priority over another. You are misusing the term discrimatory.

We should not now need a national lockdown - a national lockdown happened in March because the data wasnt there. It is now there are clear hotspots.

We are going to I think have localised lockdowns of varying sizes probably until February/March next year at least. Schools within these will shut I think but it wont happen on the scale it has now.

Age discrimination does not apply to students in schools. It is one of the listed exceptions.

Yes to local lockdowns from now on. I think government has decided to write the guidance (whatever it will be next week) and hand over to LAs

From what I’ve heard so far on R4 local response sounds a better fit.

I am not the one being grumpy, some posters sound like they worked in school and were the ones making the (bad) decision and now struggling to justify them.

I work in a school but didn’t make any decisions as I’m not the HT. We had every non-shielding member of staff back doing their full time hours in June and we had all the children that would allow us, following the government guidelines of 15 max, and using all of our classrooms. That was all KW children and one year group.

I’m not sure what else our head teacher could have done.

I really hope not. I fear for the mental health of children and the parents that are trying to manage in these times. The thought of going back to juggling childcare, homeschooling and work is enough to send my anxiety rocketing, I genuinely don't know how we would cope again.

SantaClaritaDiet

Pointing out that your FACTS are not FACTS, doesn't make me grumpy, nor does it make me one of the people that made the decisions.

What it does make me is someone that is correcting someone the thinks FACTs are only partial truths.

They will open come what may- this seems to be the message from the government right now. I think it would take a drastic rise in numbers/ deaths for them to consider closing schools again.

My friend works in a school and she's said she's definitely going back to work on September 2nd.

What I am curious about is why teachers are more worried about schools reopening than parents. I realise that might sound a little odd, so here's my logic:

• The concern seems to be that children will not be able to social distance from other pupils in any meaningful way. So it is thought likely that infections will spread quickly in a classroom setting (I'm not sure exactly what the data is on that at the moment, and how conclusive it actually is).
• Teachers are concerned that if the infection is spread between children then they are likely to get it too.
• However, if a child does pick up the virus, then they will obviously also be infectious at home.
• Parents are not going to be socially distancing from ill children in any meaningful way, and certainly less than teachers (who shouldn't be touching the same surfaces etc). So will almost certainly be exposed to the virus.

There’s enough in the news without people with no scientific background making up these scaremongering posts! There will be localised lockdowns but unlikely to require whole country lockdowns unless it were to get totally out of control.

Not teachers have to deal with I’ll children, and clean cuts and hug a crying child.

These are normal expectations.

Kids want to hold hands at playtime, help with shoes or coats, old kids get into fights or are aggressive. SEN children can have meltdowns and need restraining. The list is endless.

I don’t think national government will take the hit after stating school priority. LAs taking the heat on the other hand.. I think they’ll do this type of thing first:

Liverpool area did increased testing unit, reduced visits, overnight stays, care home visits, shielding stay in. But not closing businesses which would require furlough and grant type funding.

I think we’ll see this locally, hard to know re schools are they’re closed anyway.

@FrippEnos

SantaClaritaDiet

Pointing out that your FACTS are not FACTS, doesn't make me grumpy, nor does it make me one of the people that made the decisions.

What it does make me is someone that is correcting someone the thinks FACTs are only partial truths.

Denying facts because you disagree doesn't make them untrue I am afraid...

Next you will deny that state schools have been more than unequal in the way they provided contact and education during the lockdown....

Now I am sure you will have 100 reasons to justify whatever poor judgement or decision was made, but it doesn't change the actual outcome.

You only have to compare half a dozen schools to clearly see how things have been, it's not like I am making anything up! At some point, people in charge will have to be made accountable. SOME clearly felt safe in a cushy little job, but the rest has proven that instead of using the computer says no "government says so" attitude, they have worked hard to figure out what they could do within the guidelines..

@whatsthecomingoverthehill

What I am curious about is why teachers are more worried about schools reopening than parents. I realise that might sound a little odd, so here's my logic:

• The concern seems to be that children will not be able to social distance from other pupils in any meaningful way. So it is thought likely that infections will spread quickly in a classroom setting (I'm not sure exactly what the data is on that at the moment, and how conclusive it actually is).
• Teachers are concerned that if the infection is spread between children then they are likely to get it too.
• However, if a child does pick up the virus, then they will obviously also be infectious at home.
• Parents are not going to be socially distancing from ill children in any meaningful way, and certainly less than teachers (who shouldn't be touching the same surfaces etc). So will almost certainly be exposed to the virus.

Because it's my workplace and they are not my children. I'm worried I will pick it up from them (secondary age) and then take it to my own family. To be honest I worry about my family and community transmission second... I think some people (understandably) want schools back so they can have a break from their kids. I know I will get shouted down for this but I also know it is true from lots of parents posts on here saying that they need schools back for everyone's mental health. Well, for my mental health I need to know my job is as safe as it can be and that our working conditions are equal to everyone else's.

SantaClaritaDiet -THEN the government let it to the discretion of the schools to reopen to ALL year groups! Some schools stepped up, as best as they could. Other schools refuse to bother and chose to discriminate and exclude some children.

Following the Government guidelines to limit bubbles to 15 (and not do rotas) plus offer keyworker provision to a growing number of keyworker children in bubbles across the years (which we know became increasingly arbritrary in who qualified!) most schools did not have capacity in terms of teaching staff or classrooms to accommodate other year groups. You can't suddenly double the size of a school or the staff number!
It really was the Governments ever changing regulations and their stipulations that meant some years didn't get to go back in at all.

The school I work in is planning to open with all classes. Reception always start a little later but that is because of home visits which I imagine won’t take part.

I was shielding but now expected to go back. No masks allowed. I am too nervous and I am not going back.

Schools might not have enough teaching staff but will use HLTAs to teach so that will increase numbers.

The LAs and Academy groups were advising last term as to how many classes could return. I think they will return in September except for those in lockdown areas.

Melbourne has greater lockdown rules and closed the schools a few days ago. Also had a night curfew 8pm-5am.

It's also important teachers don't treat kids like a manky risk. it could also be traumatising for reception aged kids just starting if the teacher can't be warm and reassuring. I think for the rest of this year Boris should have encouraged outdoor activities and encouraged parents to keep kids outside. If they were just going to school and nowhere else the risk will be massively lowered. But now they are at zoos, parks, shopping centers and on holidays it's higher risk. I understand teachers being scared. They are human and for the last few months we've been told to avoid eachother. When we go back in september it will be worse than when we all went home on that Friday in march. The government have done everything in the wrong order. Whilst I appreciate pub owners etc need their business to survive,how did alcohol become more important than education?

no. But many might not be open for very long. I think staff shortages are going to be a huge issue. That said, these new 90 minute tests, if they work, will help enormously. Because people can potentially be back at work later that day rather than having to wait 2-3 days to find out.