Schools to remain closed until October half term?

[stopcollaborateandlisten]

Lots and lots coming out in the news how schools will finally be re-opening - anyone else think it might get pushed back at the last minute to after the October half term?

My DM teaches. She has already said she’s not going in Sept without sufficient protection - smaller bubbles and PPE. But her hands are tied - she’s not allowed to quit (contracted until Dec) and even if she could quit she wouldn’t be able to claim benefits (because of having quit a job), but equally she’s not allowed to insist upon Covid secure working conditions. So what can she do?

Assuming the union doesn’t order a strike and the government doesn’t suddenly make schools Covid secure... Her choices at this point are basically quit and let the school sue her for breach of contract, or get signed off sick. She is planning to take the latter course of action.

@askmehowiknow

Teachers surely aren't intending to 'get signed off' with a medical condition to mean they don't have to work. Is that really true?

This isn't me, btw, I'll be in work as usual in september, but...

Imagine you have been told to shield from March to August 1st. Not allowed to leave your house/garden. Told to get someone else to put the bins out for you, as it's too risky to do this basic task.

Then 1 month later you are expected to be in a building where almost 2000 people mix freely, where it is impossible to keep 2m away from others. You will be in a poorly ventilated room with 5x30 adolescents for an hour at a time. No masks, no visors, no screens. No mitigation of risk other than wash your hands (even though there's no sinks), stay away from other adults (who you normally only see for 20 minutes a day anyway) and massive bubbles that are rendered pointless by mosh-pit corridors, communal toilets with exceptionally bad hygiene and everyone coming on the same buses.

Do you not think in this situation you may actually be scared enough, that your stress levels could be high enough, that actually, a doctor could legitimately sign you off with stress?

Ours are back (Edinburgh) next Wednesday with slightly staggered start and finish times but all back 100% from day one.

Teachers surely aren't intending to 'get signed off' with a medical condition to mean they don't have to work
Stress and anxiety is a real medical condition. It would stress me out if I wasn’t allowed to quit my job but equally wasn’t allowed to demand safe working conditions.

Being scared to work is very different to genuine stress. If someone told their GP they are scared to work they would not be signed off with stress.

It will be interesting how things pan out for sure. I read somewhere that PGCE applications have gone up 95% because graduates are worried about unemployment. You then have recent trainees who may or may not be utilised.
In mid-March, the week before lockdown, supply could have been booked 5x over in certain secondaries. Some year groups were sent home so that others could remain. What was noticeable was how self-isolation amongst pupils and staff was like a domino effect. Also that some families with poor attendance anyway were self-isolating with immediate effect and some staff who were the last people standing gave the impression they were a little sceptical about how quickly it escalated amongst colleagues.

askmehowiknow
Teachers surely aren't intending to 'get signed off' with a medical condition to mean they don't have to work. Is that really true?

It can't be news to you that anxiety and stress are medical conditions?

@askmehowiknow

Being scared to work is very different to genuine stress. If someone told their GP they are scared to work they would not be signed off with stress.

I’m not sure that’s true.

Being too scared to work in an environment that isn’t Covid-secure when you are clinically extremely vulnerable and are scared you may become very ill or die if you catch the virus, probably would lead to people being signed off.

How long would those teachers sign off sick do it for? It might be a while until vaccine.

I suppose they could do it until then. But we’d better get one.

I'm sure staying at home even longer on full pay with their pay rise would certainly help those stress levels!

I think schools will go back but longer Xmas break. I don't know how Year 10 and 12 kids will be able to sit exams as have missed so much time off specification.

I believe 28 weeks is the maximum you can sign off sick. That includes mental illness, so if you’re a teacher suffering from stress you could be off work until Easter. If conditions haven’t improved you can resign whilst on sick leave and not return at all.

askmehowiknow

Would that be the graduated pay rise that was finalised in January but only seems to have been announced recently to annoy and upset people to distract from what ever else they want to push through?

Or, of course, schools could be made safer. Then maybe teachers wouldn't feel stressed. And wouldn't need to see GPS about stress.

Anxiety and stress are real illnesses only a fool would think otherwise.

You can be signed off for a lot longer than 28 weeks. People have had 18 months off where l work.

Would that be the graduated pay rise that was finalised in January
The one that loads of staff (including my DM) aren’t getting because their school has decided they can’t afford it.

You can be signed off for a lot longer than 28 weeks. People have had 18 months off where l work
I didn’t know you could be off that long. Maybe the government will reconsider safety measures for schools when half the teachers go off sick for years on end.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Or, of course, schools could be made safer. Then maybe teachers wouldn't feel stressed. And wouldn't need to see GPS about stress.

Anxiety and stress are real illnesses only a fool would think otherwise.

Yep-that’s the daft thing.

We have a huge teaching recruitment and retention crisis, yet the government have decided that schools must open as normal, with no additional funding and very little in place to make the environment ‘Covid secure’ yet the whole thing will crumple if there’s not enough staff!

With many other jobs, if people are off, the work can be shared, done later etc, but with schools, you need a teacher in front of every class of 30. If teachers aren’t in, supply will be hard to find and we certainly wont be able to double up classes or split them up so that eg if a Y4 teacher is off ill, each of the other y3/4 teachers are given another 6/7 children for the rest of the week as we’ve done for years before.

It would have been far better for the government to prioritise schools and make the environment safer, then staff would be happy to be working.

I don’t blame anyone in their 50/60s or who is clinically vulnerable to be very stressed about returning to a workplace such as schools.

Neither do l. And it’s ridiculous that they are being forced into it.

I did my PGCE to teach, not to be part of some stupid ecperiment

@OverTheRainbow88

Most NHS workers see 40 people a day, GPS mainly over the phone! I will teach 180 kids a day.

And will you be up close to all 180 for prolonged periods? Handling their bodily fluids? I would hope you will sensibly maintain a suitable distance at the front of the classroom. Obviously teachers of small kids won't be able to always maintain this but then they won't be teaching 180 kids a day, will they.

That said, if you would feel better with PPE on, then I do believe you should be allowed to wear it.

To those saying eg 30% of staff in their school were shielding, are you absolutely sure their definition of shielding is the same as the governments? A very small minority of the population were issued with a shielding letter, this is different to people who were labelled as 'vulnerable'. I often wonder on here if teachers really understand this as on these threads lots of teachers talk about loads of colleagues shielding. It really should be a very small percentage overall

I would hope you will sensibly maintain a suitable distance at the front of the classroom
That’s not how you teach. Teachers interact with each child individually.

If cases rise they rise. What do people expect, cases to stay low or disappear when more things are opening and there’s no vaccine? As long as it can be kept on top of and not go out of control. Kids’ education has suffered enough. I think part time for a while to ease them in would be sensible but they need to go back.

@LegoMaus

I would hope you will sensibly maintain a suitable distance at the front of the classroom That’s not how you teach. Teachers interact with each child individually.

In high school? Nope, sorry, not necessary. If it will get teachers back to work, let them stand at the front. Time to stop making excuses.

In high school? Nope, sorry, not necessary. If it will get teachers back to work, let them stand at the front. Time to stop making excuses.

I can't get back to work, I never stopped. It just looked different for a while, like many others working from home.

At the risk of making excuses:

How do I look at students work from the front of the classroom?
Some students respond badly to public correction of behaviour, how do I do this from the front?
How do I hand out any worksheets/resources from the front?

But more importantly, why does every other workforce need a covid secure workplace apart from teachers?
Everywhere else I go looks very different to normal (pubs, supermarkets, restaurants, hairdressers even the refuse centre). Why is school the exception? (Apart from the obvious that the government doesn't want to fund it).

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

You can be signed off for a lot longer than 28 weeks. People have had 18 months off where l work.

Yes, but not on full pay. For here ( Scotland) It is 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay.