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Kids wearing face masks to school

70 replies

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 11:03

I work in a school and current guidance is staff and children do not need face masks except in situations you'd usually use PPE or signs of illness.

I've recently - like many - being spreading my wings and getting out and about more.

I've noticed that so it's children of all ages (even as young as 4/5) who seem to tolerate masks the best.

In town they seem to keep them on all the time and don't seem bothered. It's the adults who pull them to the chin or relive and hang off their wrist when out in Main Street.

I just think we are underestimating our children and it's just something they would adapt to and would reduce risks more and worth advising staff and kids wear even if it isn't compulsory?

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Uhoh2020 · 04/08/2020 16:02

Possibly for older children when moving about walking in the corridors but not sat at their desks whilst learning.
Wearing masks whilst teaching possibly makes it harder for pupils to hear and engage properly, a visor for teachers would be better.

AnneOfQueenSables · 04/08/2020 16:08

This is why they haven’t said people should wear masks in offices
But that isn't an universal rule. We have friends in Germany and they have to wear masks in the office. Their companies had to supply them.

Fwiw I think the issue with DCs wearing masks is the fact they would have to remove them, dispose of them, put new ones on - after break; lunch, etc. I'm just not sure that is practical from a cross-contamination pov and from a logistics of disposing of masks/hand washing, etc.

Uhoh2020 · 04/08/2020 16:14

There's also the issue that not all parents can afford or will provide a mask regardless of costs. Schools don't have the funds to supply each child with masks every day. With older children may say they have conveniently forgotten their mask just to get a day off school.

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 16:14

@AnneOfQueenSables

This is why they haven’t said people should wear masks in offices But that isn't an universal rule. We have friends in Germany and they have to wear masks in the office. Their companies had to supply them.

Fwiw I think the issue with DCs wearing masks is the fact they would have to remove them, dispose of them, put new ones on - after break; lunch, etc. I'm just not sure that is practical from a cross-contamination pov and from a logistics of disposing of masks/hand washing, etc.

But it's perfectly possible if we educate children. If we teach them what's expected and have an expectation they'll comply.

Most children in schools comply with the already strict rules (some inform rules are so strict you can only choose from 3 pairs of shoe for example)

If we have such high expectation of compliance on something like inform that won't save lives (and doesn't teach them workplace etiquette because I literally know of no job that requires a woman to wear a men's shirt and blazer with a tie) then surely we can assume pupils are competent and reliable enough to cope with this.

It's safety.

We need strict PH messaging. Alongside this we need secondary pupils to know there is a zero tolerance policy with coughing on someone etc.

There's too much pussy footing around for popularity rather than decisive moves that will actually make a difference.

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itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 16:15

@Uhoh2020

There's also the issue that not all parents can afford or will provide a mask regardless of costs. Schools don't have the funds to supply each child with masks every day. With older children may say they have conveniently forgotten their mask just to get a day off school.
I don't think this is an issue.

Local community have been great helping with this. I'm sure they'd happily make loads and all it needs is people to donate unwanted material and or some elastic.

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SunshineCake · 04/08/2020 16:19

My just finished year ten son told me yesterday the pupils aren't allowed to wear masks in school. This is because the staff can't see if the kids are chewing gum or swearing. This is ridiculous. I have told my son to wear a mask if he feels better with it in and to tell the staff to call me to discuss. Given the school I find it hard to believe any of the kids would be swearing or chewing gum and it seems such a stupid thing for them to say.

Mummabeary · 04/08/2020 16:26

An additional concern I would have is that, if they were to be effective, what would the long term consequences be of children not exercising their immune systems in the normal/ natural way? There is a school of thought that children fight off Covid 19 so easily due to recent exposure to other milder coronaviruses. So what happens if we mask them and they dont catch the harmless bugs and this weakens their immune systems?

That's not to mention things like chicken pox - kids not catching it so getting it when older and it's more risky. I feel more consideration is needed before messing with so many known facts of nature.

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 16:27

@SunshineCake

My just finished year ten son told me yesterday the pupils aren't allowed to wear masks in school. This is because the staff can't see if the kids are chewing gum or swearing. This is ridiculous. I have told my son to wear a mask if he feels better with it in and to tell the staff to call me to discuss. Given the school I find it hard to believe any of the kids would be swearing or chewing gum and it seems such a stupid thing for them to say.
But that's my point about ridiculous reasons.

Perhaps it is time to trust our future generation to do the right thing. And if they chew gum or swear does it matter? If they don't know about it does it have any effect?

We have a future generation who could be taught to be resilient and learn to make personal sacrifice for others and to be community spirited and yet no one is willing to give them trust or a chance.

Yet at the same time moaning about the current cohort of 20 somethings who are partying like Covid doesn't exist!

I think what annoys me most is the sheer point blank lack of personal choice to wear one.

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KOKOagainandagain · 04/08/2020 16:34

The problem with just referring to scientific data gathered during a lockdown where workplaces and schools have been closed (hence no data) and ignoring scientific knowledge of viral spread, viral load etc means that 'data' (gathered during lockdown within households) shows that spread is primarily within households. In this context, how could it be otherwise?

So all we know from data is that when most people are not mixing outside the home, but where some people are and are infected outside the home, transmission is primarily within the home. No shit Sherlock. The virus has to be brought into the home initially so we know that even minimal contact is risky given transmission - hence social distancing and mask wearing when outside the home.

To take this data, collected in one context, as factual regarding the nature of transmission and the effect of viral load in a different context is profoundly unscientific.

The notion that an asymptomatic or presymptomatic person is less likely to infect another vulnerable host that they have prolonged contact with, with no social distancing or no mask wearing than a fleeting contact makes no scientific sense whatsoever.

Unless of course you accept (for the sake of the economy) that fleeting contacts can be protected whilst work colleagues, fellow pupils, household members (ie those sharing an environment with close or prolonged contact) can do little or nothing and that contact will inevitably lead to infection. And if that is your priority at least have the balls to say so - some of you might die but that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make - so that we can freely decide whether that is a sacrifice we are willing to make.

This is blatant use of cherry picked data for political/economic reasons to influence behaviour and is why scientists and epidemiologists feel honour bound to say it is wrong because of the cost to human health, wellbeing and life. Scientific knowledge of known facts and dynamics can pretty well predict the outcome. Like discharging patients without testing into care homes. The result was predictable. The UK had not collected data but we could see what was happening in other countries.

The result of forcing all D.C. including secondary age into school is predictable. The UK has not openly shared even limited data collected data but we can see what is happening in other countries where schools have reopened.

Even in the UK when schools weren't fully open, outbreaks were occurring, second only to care homes. But this is not reported. We dont get the recent data here because the government has decided that all schools must open to all pupils regardless of current data.

So if you repeat Hancock nonsense about why masks won't be effective or even counterproductive in the workplace or schools, ask yourself why. Perform a bullshit test. Does this make sense? Is it logical? Does it fit scientific understanding?

Cases and clusters are found in households, hospitals and care homes during lockdown, when relaxation occurs they are found in workplaces and then schools. And then they all tie up together and we are back to community spread with mystery cases and exponential growth.

stressbucket1 · 04/08/2020 16:43

Has anyone worn a reusable face covering for long periods of time?
I wear surgical mask for hours at a time for work and that is ok. I also wear reusable face coverings when shopping etc but find them much hotter and uncomfortable so would think wearing them for 6 hrs a day would be too much.
Also I have 2 primary age kids who are happy to wear face coverings in shops but as pp said they touch the front of the mask constantly and take them off drop them on the floor pick them up and put them on again it just defeats the whole object.
I don't have a problem with teachers wearing them if they wish but mask plus visor just makes your voice all muffled and I think it would be hard to teach like that

Morfin · 04/08/2020 16:47

I'm sick of comparison to office workers. In my office we social distance, hot desking has been banned, we have half the staff working on a rota and the other half at home working. When I deal with the public they are wearing masks and I have a perspex screen. This is why I don't need a mask at work. There are no offices that have gone back to normal because they would be at risk of being sued/investigated by the heath and safety executive.
Our children and young people are hot desking, sitting shoulder to shoulder in unventilated classrooms that were occupied by another class the hour previous and will be occupied by about class of up to 33 the class after. There will be no SD in groups of up to 300 people. Most of those in that group will have siblings in different groups of up to 300. They have precious little plans on how to quarrantine people of someone gets infected. In ANY other situation it would be classed as foolish negligence.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 04/08/2020 16:47

I think that having children in bubbles is all that can reasonably be done, and honestly all that probably needs to be done - my children have been at school throughout 3 days a week while I’ve worked. They’ve had separate playground spaces and have eaten lunch in their classroom, which they’ll carry on with in September.

I'm assuming you are in the UK, in which case your children have been at school with a small number of other children, where social distancing is easy because of the small numbers. Come September that just won't be the case. There will be 30 maybe more, in a classroom. Bubbles will be possibly 30 in primary schools ( all primary schools I know of are making each year group a bubble so up to 90 children) and in secondary schools a bubble is a whole year group so upwards of 150 - 300 odd students plus all staff. Do you really think that in groups of that size they will have their own space at lunchtime etc?

How anyone can think that 30 students squashed into a classroom aren't going to be spreading Covid, along with all other bugs, I honestly don't know.

stressbucket1 · 04/08/2020 16:50

Different point entirely but wouldn't antibody testing for teachers before sept give us a better idea how widespread it was in schools at the peak. Lots of parents/kids sent home at our school in the last week before lockdown but no testing available

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 04/08/2020 16:55

@stressbucket1

Has anyone worn a reusable face covering for long periods of time? I wear surgical mask for hours at a time for work and that is ok. I also wear reusable face coverings when shopping etc but find them much hotter and uncomfortable so would think wearing them for 6 hrs a day would be too much. Also I have 2 primary age kids who are happy to wear face coverings in shops but as pp said they touch the front of the mask constantly and take them off drop them on the floor pick them up and put them on again it just defeats the whole object. I don't have a problem with teachers wearing them if they wish but mask plus visor just makes your voice all muffled and I think it would be hard to teach like that
I'm wearing reusable masks (triple thickness with a filter in as well) for eight hours a day at work - it's fine. Colleagues are wearing reusable masks while doing quite physical or active tasks for up to hours a day. I'm not noticing any problems. I'm breathless on exertion normally and I'm not noticing it any worse when wearing a mask. My oxygen saturation is normally 89 - 90% at rest and I've checked it with a mask on and it's the same.
profpoopsnagle · 04/08/2020 17:15

Children touch their face masks much more than you think. I have just watched a 4-5 year old get out of the car and walk to the supermarket entrance, they touched it 5 times in that short space. Yesterday, 2 older children waiting in an ice cream queue were constantly fiddling with them.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 04/08/2020 17:17

Ds (5) hates them. It's partly my fault as I attempted to desensentise myself (ptsd involving suffocation) which went badly wrong but also I think it's because it muffles his speech making him harder to understand than he is already. Dh has taken him shopping a few times and he's come home in tears due to masks. Not sure what we'd do if they were mandatory at school.

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 17:24

Cases and clusters are found in households, hospitals and care homes during lockdown, when relaxation occurs they are found in workplaces and then schools. And then they all tie up together and we are back to community spread with mystery cases and exponential growth.

Good point

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itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 17:26

@Morfin

I'm sick of comparison to office workers. In my office we social distance, hot desking has been banned, we have half the staff working on a rota and the other half at home working. When I deal with the public they are wearing masks and I have a perspex screen. This is why I don't need a mask at work. There are no offices that have gone back to normal because they would be at risk of being sued/investigated by the heath and safety executive. Our children and young people are hot desking, sitting shoulder to shoulder in unventilated classrooms that were occupied by another class the hour previous and will be occupied by about class of up to 33 the class after. There will be no SD in groups of up to 300 people. Most of those in that group will have siblings in different groups of up to 300. They have precious little plans on how to quarrantine people of someone gets infected. In ANY other situation it would be classed as foolish negligence.
This is precisely what I've been saying.

Covid secure guidelines in every workplace dependent on set up etc.

Yet nothing needed in schools apparently.

Despite being similar set up to loads of other set ups (households/offices etc)

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itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 17:28

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

Ds (5) hates them. It's partly my fault as I attempted to desensentise myself (ptsd involving suffocation) which went badly wrong but also I think it's because it muffles his speech making him harder to understand than he is already. Dh has taken him shopping a few times and he's come home in tears due to masks. Not sure what we'd do if they were mandatory at school.
I think mandatory would be a long way off and there is of course exceptions.

What bothers me is that there is t the choice to wear them for people who may want to.

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ThatDamnScientist · 04/08/2020 17:38

I really do think they should be worn if the children can manage and want to (optional as I know some can't).

I also think teachers should be given the choice, I honestly can't believe they are being told NOT to, I can't understand the logic behind it (or many other decisions being made of late).

I would have no problems with dd2(5) teachers wearing masks/visors.

itsgettingweird · 04/08/2020 17:45

Guidelines states staff don't need PPe and should only wear it where its usual practice.

Nothing to say wearing one will result in disciplinary but definitely makes it clear they shouldn't wear it which makes it hard to make the decision too.

I think clear public health messaging and guidance could change things. I don't see why there cannot at least be an attempt at looking at science more closely.

There was a valid point above that showed it may not be beneficial. More studies are needed.

And our European counterparts have had kids in face masks.

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Dinosauratemydaffodils · 04/08/2020 17:58

What bothers me is that there is t the choice to wear them for people who may want to

We're in Scotland and my understanding of the current guidelines is yes, here at least.

CarrieBlue · 04/08/2020 18:12

My children are quite happy wearing reusable masks, they told me that we shouldn’t touch them and they know to wash their hands when removing them. It’s not an option in our house about wearing them or not when out, they put up with it just as adults do. It’s not as nice as not wearing them but a whole lot nicer than COVID-19. I genuinely don’t understand the angst about mask wearing.

HerRoyalNotness · 04/08/2020 18:17

Even my 3yo wears one. In fact as we go out the door somewhere she says we need masks mummy. It’s just become normal. Fines now being introduced here (TX) for people not wearing them. Everyone over 8 will have to wear them at school and those under will be encouraged. School district has ordered 1million masks, which actually won’t go far, we’re kitting ours out slowly so they’ll have 3 per day, enough for 2-3 days. One set in the wash, one in the bag, one backup.

BunsyGirl · 04/08/2020 18:23

When my DCs went back to school (years 2 and 5) in June they were required to wear masks going into and out of school and when walking around campus. We haven’t heard yet what the rules will be for September.

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